My observations of the line procedure

[Pirate Looks at --]

Thanks Billy, and you are correct, just extending your femur a bit. This is the greatest festival in the world and it is too bad that some people feel that, and I am sure, for very good reason, that  there are issues regarding how the lines and the tarps are handled. I for one have never worried about a spot on the tarp, I have done my time in line, and I must say enjoyed it. Nice to have Yonder sing to you at 4:30 in the morning when you have finally gone to sleep. Remember the Planet is listening and I know that Craig and Steve and every one there will look into all of the great suggestions that have been made on this list and TRY to please more people. That's the way they are! I for one will welcome any change that suits the MAJORITY. Because I will have the time of my life regardless of the LINE or TARP sizes. I agree with Billy, The suggestions are out there and the planet will come up with the best possible solution to make everybody happy. Love TBF, Love THe Planet, Love to all on the forum!

[HuckinFappy]

I guess I would ask why you would suggest that plans involving more work for PB should be avoided? I think I understand your rationale, but comes a time...

Because they have more important things to deal with.  They've always generally asked us to police the line ourselves, and try to be hands-off as much as possible.   I'd like to keep it that way.

I really have to question the use of the term reasonable for getting in line at 4AM when other alternatives have been suggested and are being discussed. But I'm reasonably certain we can agree that what is reasonable for some, may not be considered such by others?

For a 10-12,000 person festival that opens the gates at 9:00, what is "reasonable"?  I agree, we all woul dhave different definitions of that, but if you want to get a very specific spot, and have a large group of people depending on you, getting to the show 5 hours early seems very reasonable to me.  YMMV of course

[landshark]

QUOTE FROM FERG"1. Dust Control, we can and need to do better, however I worry that planning for this will assure rain.  Similarly, a canvas pathway would also help this but also provide clearer access through the crowd."END OF QUOTE

My eyes and lungs thank you for keepin on this topic.

Landscape mesh, wet wood chips, tarped paths with drain ports for rain, reusable...thats my idea. How many tarps are left at lost and found each year?

[landshark]

QUOTE FROM FERG"2.  Let's let the tarp discussion begin.  Purchase of reserved seating "squares" at sound booth radius? (wouldn't lots of people pay us for a decent but not from row seat?  I realize many local teenagers would be out of work)  Random line number giveaway.  Tarp size enforcement or abandon "rule". Rented Chairs at first 100 seats in line, no storing seats, seat picked up at noon daily and replaced after the show the night before, their last task of the day).  A different strategy every day just to experiment? Using wristands for number, alternating daily.  Reserved sunshade spot?  Sunshade rule of size and height?   Give any money collected to the Early Stone Ferguson retirement account or to the winner of a festivarian vote of national/local charities selected by Planet Bluegrass?" END QUOTE

Life like alot of things is a mixed bag. . Mix it up shuffle things around. I was always up front and center and by chance stood back way back and WOW the sound is off the charts further back. So there is no  bad seat. It all starts with a number when you make that purchase, now you are in.  Anything that comes after that is cake.
Real Estate Ferg, you know what to do and when is that retirement party? LOL!

Sunshade, one family one spot. Not two take yer pick like the rest of us , sun or shade?And yeah if you don't designate a size and height each year the sunshade area grows like Matropolis, LOL! Can you imagine in a few years, youll have to bump the stage back. LOL!

Chair rental, SUPERB IDEA do you need a locker with that?

[landshark]

I think you must give many tickets away for gate help. I bet it would be in your best interest to give Vets a first in with the exchange for 5 hours of service to give back for that special ticket offer or something to that effect. good for you and meeeeee

[bodegahwy]

Lots of good ideas... and lots of the same discussion.   I am older and grumpier than I used to be and while the line thing did not bother me much in the 80s and even the 90s, of late I do not like it.  As a long time sunshade tribe member (since our now 20 year old daughter was born) (for a decade before that we did the tarp run) I have seen the line go from needing to be in line at 8AM or so (Town Park) to get in the front row of sunshades to having to spend the night.

Used to be that you could not leave your chair sitting there all day with nobody in it and expect it to be where you left it when you got back.  Same for leaving it unoccupied most of the night... it simply would be sitting out in the volleyball court when you came back.

I have no quarrel with someone that wants to sit in a chair all afternoon and night to get a spot the next morning, but if you are not actually going to be there, the chair should not be there either!  One person sitting all night also does not hold space for six friends to join them in line in the morning either.  (No problem with trading out though)

What I would really rather see though is random numbers handed out at the time the line is "supposed" to form.. the start of the last act the night before.  If you want to be in front tomorrow come to the gate at 10PM and get a random number (yes large groups that all get numbers will have an advantage and people will still sell numbers) and enforce a reasonable tarp size.  5X7 is probably too small but we all know some are too damn big!

[darbwa]

Even tho I don't think anything is gonna change, here's an idea I had on the random number thang.  And just to keep it simple, I'll refer only to the Town Park/Warner Field tarp line.  

Every one already gets a wristband to attend, and every wristband already has a number on it.  If those wristbands were given out in a RANDOM order instead of sequentially, those numbers could be used to designate your daily line spot.  Though I don't know exactly how many TP/WF tickets there are, let's say there are 2,000 for this example.  On Thursday, the line would start with wristband 0001.  Friday 0500, Sat 1000, Sunday 1500.  

At 8 am (adjust times for actual gate openings), everyone lines up according to their wristband number and is presented with one of the normal line numbers.  The person with the numbered wristband would then be able to pass that number along to their tarp runner.  At 9 am, the number holding runners would move into position after holding up their CORRECTLY sized tarp for all to see (perhaps there would be a maximum sized tarp hanging on the fence to compare them to).  They would then have an hour to re-fold/roll.  At 10, cue the bagpipes and run like the wind!

The big camps would retain the ability to score great seats because they can look for the best wristbands amongst their entire group.  But even the people who come alone or in small groups would have the chance to sit close at least one or two days.  Smaller tarps (that we are already SUPPOSED to use) would give even more people a chance to get a great seat at least one of those days.

However I DO think humongous tarps should be allowed.  It's important that large parties of friends get to sit together and enjoy the music.  Just allow them ONLY behind the low-chair area.  The big camps could have a couple of smaller tarps up in the low-chair area, and their humongous one half-way back.  That way more people have a chance to get those primo seats.

Like I said, I don't think it's gonna change, but I thought I'd throw out the idea anyway.

I love this idea.  Like most people here, I have been reading about this issue for years.  This is the best suggestion I have ever read on the subject.  This sounds like heaven.  And I could sleep in!!!

[Iriecycle]

Even tho I don't think anything is gonna change, here's an idea I had on the random number thang.  And just to keep it simple, I'll refer only to the Town Park/Warner Field tarp line.  

Every one already gets a wristband to attend, and every wristband already has a number on it.  If those wristbands were given out in a RANDOM order instead of sequentially, those numbers could be used to designate your daily line spot.  Though I don't know exactly how many TP/WF tickets there are, let's say there are 2,000 for this example.  On Thursday, the line would start with wristband 0001.  Friday 0500, Sat 1000, Sunday 1500.  

At 8 am (adjust times for actual gate openings), everyone lines up according to their wristband number and is presented with one of the normal line numbers.  The person with the numbered wristband would then be able to pass that number along to their tarp runner.  At 9 am, the number holding runners would move into position after holding up their CORRECTLY sized tarp for all to see (perhaps there would be a maximum sized tarp hanging on the fence to compare them to).  They would then have an hour to re-fold/roll.  At 10, cue the bagpipes and run like the wind!

The big camps would retain the ability to score great seats because they can look for the best wristbands amongst their entire group.  But even the people who come alone or in small groups would have the chance to sit close at least one or two days.  Smaller tarps (that we are already SUPPOSED to use) would give even more people a chance to get a great seat at least one of those days.

However I DO think humongous tarps should be allowed.  It's important that large parties of friends get to sit together and enjoy the music.  Just allow them ONLY behind the low-chair area.  The big camps could have a couple of smaller tarps up in the low-chair area, and their humongous one half-way back.  That way more people have a chance to get those primo seats.

Like I said, I don't think it's gonna change, but I thought I'd throw out the idea anyway.

I love this idea.  Like most people here, I have been reading about this issue for years.  This is the best suggestion I have ever read on the subject.  This sounds like heaven.  And I could sleep in!!!

While I support a different system to establish line order, and freedom from what seems to be a broken and contentious issue, I think whatever system is chosen should allow for the flexibility of exchanging numbers.  Thanks to all for trying to make this part of TBF better

 Listening to: Roy Rogers

[darbwa]

exhaustion. 

I would also like to reiterate that the idea of just going up front, making friends and using a temporary spot sounds great and easy and I have had many great experiences in this way.  But it is not easy to do as a family.  Additionally, that policy shouldn't and I assume wouldn't change if tarps had to be limited to Colorado size instead of Texas size. 

I love the festival and I will keep going no matter what but if a change isn't made with the tarp/line situation, I will certainly be making a change to my routine.  I will be one of the guys paying good money for a low number.  I think that it sucks that I feel the need to resort to that and I would understand the frustration that people would have with me buying a good spot but it is better than my current alternative.

That being said, if someone out there wants to make some cash at the next festival I will gladly pay for a good spot and some extra sleep.

[completejohn]

FYI:  I'm already in line.

It's a little lonely out here.  But the worst part is taking short pee breaks, knowing that I'll sometime come back to the line and find I've been replaced as the first chair, with my chair thrown into the middle of the volleyball court.  The stress is unbelievable!

The only thing that keeps me going is that I'm so sure that TBF will FINALLY be headlined by Justin Bieber.   

[landshark]

Did you ever notice the ebb and flow of the crowd. We shift naturally from back to front to side to front to back to side. Does it really matter?

I can have #70 be in the same spot all 4 days if I try hard enough but you know whats weird, it really does not matter. After time you have friends in every other row

What do you think would happen if there were no numbers? Hua, do you think we would all jockey for the very same position. I say let the people speak, no numbers. Let us all move about freely and talk amongst ourselves like good men and women.

[ferg]

Well, we're working on getting office open for Monday and reviewing the planet revegetation plan.  Darbwa's plan is similar to some we've talked about.

I like it.  Can't hurt much to try. Maybe everyone would find out other seats are just fine.

Good thing all the aeats are good, we're gonna need them this year.

[landshark]

Well, we're working on getting office open for Monday and reviewing the planet revegetation plan.  Darbwa's plan is similar to some we've talked about.

I like it.  Can't hurt much to try. Maybe everyone would find out other seats are just fine.

Good thing all the aeats are good, we're gonna need them this year.

  I would gladly pay extra for front and center but I do think the music sounds fuller behind the sound booth. So close, its good but back is amazing. Robert Plant from behind the sound stage was off the charts. Yep no bad seat.

Pretty weather hua?

[Bevin]

Pretty nice fall weather we're having these days, huh?

[landshark]

Yep when you get to be my age you have more money then time on the planet. One vacation a year, do I want to be up at the frack of dawn to stand in a  line. your kidding right. I am saving my money now for that good tarp position. Sounds good to this ol gal. LOVE YOU!!!!