My observations of the line procedure

[FtFunFan]

We returned home last night after an amazing time at [my first] TBF!!  It really is a well-oiled machine...the organizers do an incredible job. 

The line/tarp procedure was one of the biggest unknowns to me, even after reading many posts on this board.  So after viewing it in person, here are a few observations:

- The no sleeping rule was definitely not enforced...pretty much everyone near the front of the line had a sleeping bag and camped out all night.

- The tarp size rule was not enforced...I saw some truly gigantic tarps.

- On Friday I got in line around 5:30am and got number 260.  My tarp ended up being about 3 back from the beginning of the "high back chair" section.  On Saturday and Sunday we got there around 7:15 and got around number 550, and ended up only a little bit further back.

- I don't understand why some people get in line in the morning of one day for the *next* day's festival.  Quite a few folks, in fact.  Isn't the goal of the festival to enjoy the music in the venue, not get your tarp near the very front by skipping the music?

[sdmjake]

i know two guys that were paid $300/day doing the TARP run. They took turns camping/holding their line spots. [they had top 8 numbers every day] They saw a lot of music, partied alot, paid for their festival tix, and went home with almost $1,000 in their pocket.
That TARP line makes no sense to me but it sure worked for them...

 Listening to: Grateful Dead - Till the morning comes

[kylers234]

i know two guys that were paid $300/day doing the TARP run. They took turns camping/holding their line spots. [they had top 8 numbers every day] They saw a lot of music, partied alot, paid for their festival tix, and went home with almost $1,000 in their pocket.
That TARP line makes no sense to me but it sure worked for them...

Yeah, the tarps I sat on in the front during my favorite bands looked like pretty corporate types.

[duffy]

my first telluride experience and it was fantastic. i also did not really know what the tarp run was all about other than reading info here before the festival. it sounded really douchy then and certainly lived up to those expectations. thursday we didn't bother since we wanted to check out what the venue was like. we just roamed around and that was perfectly fine. friday and saturday i did the run from town park. i got in line around 8am each day and got #154 friday and #158 saturday. since all we had was a small blanket for 2 people i was able to get in the low back section to the right of the soundboard both days which was great and really didnt have to work hard for it at all.
some observations:
-town park/warner line rules, i could not believe how many people line up in that other line, just insane.
-tarp sizes are ridiculous. i understand you want to be close to all your friends but since most are never there at the same time there ends up being way too much wasted space. i understand the rule is any unused tarp space can be "borrowed" until the owners return, but in reality this hardly happens all that much. many times the owners of the tarps never even showed up until the last set to claim their tarp, so obviously groups put down multiple tarps and end up using only the closest one.
-i am a bit of an egalitarian. i find it a bit unfair the same people are always up front no matter how hard they have to work for it. randomizing the numbers would go a real long way in fixing this inequality and would also allow for people to actually sleep in their tents, beds, etc.

i probably wont ever come back to telluride, its just too far and we have plenty of great music fests out west that are so much more mellower. but i loved the music and the scenery was awesome.

[oddfired]

There is a sign at the beginning of the line in Warner Field that lists the rules.  EVERY rule was flatly ignored an nobody cared.  The first 50 or so chairs in line did not move for the ENTIRE festival.  One guy had a propane coffeemaker that sat on the same rock all week.  People just got their numbers and left their chairs for the next day.

The line/number policy is INSANE.  PB is saying: "OK, pay us $300, then stay up all night to get a reasonable seat for the next day.  Oh, by the way you must sit upright and may not sleep".  WTF???  Why don't you come out and throw rocks at us and don't give us numbers if we flinch??  I can't imagine how this policy developed, but it IS the reason my family and I won't be back next year.  We are on VACATION for pete's sake!

So, after sleeping in line every night I got somewhere between 65-75 for a #, so we got a good spot.  By 4pm Thursday, Friday, and Saturday we were completely overrun with drunk frat boys to the point that we had to pull our tarp up and leave.  Then we just wandered on foot or went back to camp to listen.  POOR job on the line and security Planet Bluegrass.  VERY POOR.

I used to have a boss that said you aren't allowed to complain unless you offer a solution, so here it is: hand out the numbers, randomized, to people who want one as they leave the festival.  Then they have all night to trade/buy/give away numbers to get the spot they want, then line up an hour before gates.

The policy as it exists only benefits those who can pay people to sleep in line for them or large enough groups that can divide duties.

All that said, the music was OUTSTANDING.

[sarajomo]

Reading these kinds of posts after a wonderful week really confuses me.  How about focusing on the great festival that PB throws every year.  This was my 6th year and the tarp line has always been the same.  People are more that willing for you to hang with them if you ask politely and are respectful.  Telluride Bluegrass is by far one of the most well run festivals out there.  Glad I can be a part of every year.

[oddfired]

Reading these kinds of posts after a wonderful week really confuses me.  How about focusing on the great festival that PB throws every year.  This was my 6th year and the tarp line has always been the same.  People are more that willing for you to hang with them if you ask politely and are respectful.  Telluride Bluegrass is by far one of the most well run festivals out there.  Glad I can be a part of every year.

I agree with every part of this, but the festival could be soooo much better.  Just because things have been this way is not a reason to keep them.  And I can't exactly take the whole family with chairs around asking to use tarps.  And again, good spots don't matter if you want to chill because you are going to be overrun by the single day cheeseheads.

1. Randomize the numbers
2. Sell fewer/no single day tickets.
3. Book BLUEGRASS & COUNTRY bands.
4. Step back and enjoy your much improved festival.

I abhore negativity, but it's a good idea to reflect on the event and try to improve it.  That's not being negative.

[FaceOnMars]

http://www.redrocksonline.com/Site/NewsArticle.aspx?id=277

[zack_adcock]

I definitely see all of the issues here, but without tarps I think there would be a LOT more standing and the festival would be a very different experience, one that I am sure many would not enjoy as much. Maybe I'm wrong there.

That said, whatever the rule is, I don't see the point in making one without a plan to enforce it somehow. I'm all for optimism for the kindness of humanity, but it sounds like several of the rules need tending to, both in assessing what the rules are intended to accomplish and in assessing whether or not that accomplishment is achieved.

[oddfired]

I definitely see all of the issues here, but without tarps I think there would be a LOT more standing and the festival would be a very different experience, one that I am sure many would not enjoy as much. Maybe I'm wrong there.

That said, whatever the rule is, I don't see the point in making one without a plan to enforce it somehow. I'm all for optimism for the kindness of humanity, but it sounds like several of the rules need tending to, both in assessing what the rules are intended to accomplish and in assessing whether or not that accomplishment is achieved.

Tarps are fine.  I'm not sure why you would even want one at Red Rocks, but it's the assignment of the numbers for the tarp run that is an issue, not the tarps themselves.

[zack_adcock]

I guess the idea is that the guy with hundreds of $$ available to buy #1 won't go away, but the ability to find #1 (in the hands of someone willing to part with it, no less) changes with random assignment, right?

Hell, I'd rather sleep somewhere comfortable than in line -- that's why we were right around 500 every day -- but if I could get a decent # and sleep? That would, indeed, be awesome ;-)

[Dev11]

Hi, this was my first festival, too.  Let me say, first, that it was outstanding and I am absolutely going to try to make it back!

I was in Warner and got in line every morning 30-60 minutes before the gate opened, and I sat within a tarp or two of the middle aisle every day, so I cannot complain about not being able to see or sit or enjoy myself.  I didn't think it was such a big deal that folks were breaking the rules, although clearly they were.  That large group of chairs that was continuously left around the volleyball court puzzled me.

In college, we had a line policy for basketball games is (in theory) similar to the system at TBF: get in line basically whenever you want for each individual game and you will be rewarded with a correspondingly good spot.  It is different in that a particular group of students do line checks during the day or night leading up to a game, and if you aren't present, you forfeit your spot.  Only a certain number of people can reserve space for a certain larger group (something like half of the group must be present).  I don't think Planet Bluegrass needs such a system, but it would be an intriguing experiment.

 Listening to: Yonder

[beanald]

From the Vancouver Island Festival.  Scroll down to the "Blankets and Tarps" section.  How would this go over at TBF?
http://www.islandmusicfest.com/fairgrounds/audience-information/

[oddfired]

From the Vancouver Island Festival.  Scroll down to the "Blankets and Tarps" section.  How would this go over at TBF?
http://www.islandmusicfest.com/fairgrounds/audience-information/

It would be an improvement

[FtFunFan]

From the Vancouver Island Festival.  Scroll down to the "Blankets and Tarps" section.  How would this go over at TBF?
http://www.islandmusicfest.com/fairgrounds/audience-information/

It would be an improvement

Agreed.  So take the current "low-back chairs only" section and make it a standing/dancing/no-chair section, for people to come and go as they please throughout the day.  Then the "high-back chair section" can be for tarps no larger than 5'x7', but actually enforce this by coming around early and making people fold their tarps if they're too big.  The sun shade area can remain the same.  And I also agree that randomizing the numbers would be an improvement and would end the ridiculous overnight camping in line.