WARNER FIELD LOTTERY!!

[landshark]

And just for the record I have never camped at W or TP but I have purchased a ticket to get inside to play.

With all due respect, and I'm not suggesting you don't have a right to do this, but it does add to the "exclusion" some folks are discussing here. If you're going to stay in a condo, taking up a TP wristband means one less newbie (or someone else) can stay in TP and experience all the TP culture. I've been able to camp in TP once in the last 5 years. It was fun. But I wouldn't take a ticket I didn't plan on using. I can have enough fun with my festifamily inside the grounds and at nightgrass, etc., without keeping someone else out of a campsite.

WF thats the xtra ticket never TP because it is so difficult to aquire. My camp spot is a quiet space for some much needed time out for me and my neighbor campers at times. I pay for the ticket like everyone else and do not purchase every year. So shoot me, this is not an infraction kind sir. I just wanted to get to know my Forum friends better at their camps and play after the last set. Period. I got the ticket with the same chances eveyone else has. No infraction sir just maxing out my joy potential

[Auntie Hope]

NOT bashing anyone, especially my girlfriend Landshark.

Town Park is OPEN TO EVERYONE from Landrush Saturday (6/15/2013) to Wednesday night (6/19/2013) before the official FESTIVVVAAALLL!!! starts. Everybody is WELCOME to pick, play and party with the Town Park Vets for those 5 days.

We do however ask, if you are going to pick, play and party in Town Park, that you contribute to the best of your ability. Bring your instrument, bring something for the event taking place and stay to help clean up afterward. It's the Festivarian way!

Auntie Hope 

[landshark]

  OK so I did not mean to stir this pot, this pot of conflict
 I just express myself and so I am sorry for creating some sort of contraversey geshhhh.

So this Lottery, We Want It!!!We Need It!!! And Can We Have It, soonnnnnnnnnnn. How about early this year, lets just get the suspense over already>>>>

[Hot Sugar]

The lottery is Nov 5-14. Last year, ticket prices for Warner and TP were $275. Any word on whether they'll stay the same or go up?

[Pilgrim99]

And just for the record I have never camped at W or TP but I have purchased a ticket to get inside to play.

With all due respect, and I'm not suggesting you don't have a right to do this, but it does add to the "exclusion" some folks are discussing here. If you're going to stay in a condo, taking up a TP wristband means one less newbie (or someone else) can stay in TP and experience all the TP culture. I've been able to camp in TP once in the last 5 years. It was fun. But I wouldn't take a ticket I didn't plan on using. I can have enough fun with my festifamily inside the grounds and at nightgrass, etc., without keeping someone else out of a campsite.

WF thats the xtra ticket never TP because it is so difficult to aquire. My camp spot is a quiet space for some much needed time out for me and my neighbor campers at times. I pay for the ticket like everyone else and do not purchase every year. So shoot me, this is not an infraction kind sir. I just wanted to get to know my Forum friends better at their camps and play after the last set. Period. I got the ticket with the same chances eveyone else has. No infraction sir just maxing out my joy potential

My mistake, landshark, I either misunderstood or it wasn't clear you were referring to WF.  :(Apologies aplenty!

[landshark]

And just for the record I have never camped at W or TP but I have purchased a ticket to get inside to play.

With all due respect, and I'm not suggesting you don't have a right to do this, but it does add to the "exclusion" some folks are discussing here. If you're going to stay in a condo, taking up a TP wristband means one less newbie (or someone else) can stay in TP and experience all the TP culture. I've been able to camp in TP once in the last 5 years. It was fun. But I wouldn't take a ticket I didn't plan on using. I can have enough fun with my festifamily inside the grounds and at nightgrass, etc., without keeping someone else out of a campsite.

WF thats the xtra ticket never TP because it is so difficult to aquire. My camp spot is a quiet space for some much needed time out for me and my neighbor campers at times. I pay for the ticket like everyone else and do not purchase every year. So shoot me, this is not an infraction kind sir. I just wanted to get to know my Forum friends better at their camps and play after the last set. Period. I got the ticket with the same chances eveyone else has. No infraction sir just maxing out my joy potential

My mistake, landshark, I either misunderstood or it wasn't clear you were referring to WF.  :(Apologies aplenty!

No worries friend as you can see it is hard for me not to express myself...love all feedback.

[completejohn]

Hot Sugar -

Well said.  I've been coming to TBF for 16 years and I've never camped in TP or WF, so I don't really have any skin in this game.  I think some of the comments from the TP vets that "get it" came off sounding pretty bad, although that probably wasn't the intention.  Your comments are really much more in line with what I believe the true spirit of TP to be.  I hope all you vets and traditional camps get the campsites you need and that you meet and befriend some newbies too.

Have a great day.

I never meant to sound like I hate newbies.  I, too, have never felt so welcomed as by the traditional camps, and ALWAYS do my best to help out any newbies that come around.  It just rubbed me the wrong way when 2 groups of newbies came off so rudely last year.  I hope that, by the end of the fest, they figured out that there was no reason to have that attitude, and that smiling and working together is what makes TP such a great place to camp.

Sorry if I sounded offensive - it was sincerely not my intent.

[HuckinFappy]

Oh what the heck...I'll throw in my 2¢ here...I should probably get at least 1¢ change though 

First off, what "makes the fest"?   Nobody can define that for anyone else.   Sure, for some people it's strictly the music.  For some (especially out-of-staters), it's the scenery, the mountain biking, the hiking, the weather.   For some, it's seeing our family.  For others, it's just stopping the world for a few days/weeks and recharging.   The "It's the music!" people don't understand the rest of us, and that's okay, as long as we respect each other.  For me, the music is part of an awesome soundtrack to the most perfect week of my year.  The soundtrack changes every year, and the week wouldn't be as perfect without it....sort of like "Star Wars" wouldn't be the same without John William's soundtrack.

What do the Historical camps offer?  Why should we care about them being in Town park?  It's a little thing called "tradition".  See, Planet Bluegrass provided the blank slate, and over the years the attendees made it into what they wanted.  So now it's like an established tribal existence.   We have our traditions, our feasts, we raise each other's kids, we share in each others'  weddings.  We even have some established tribal elders, who we all talk to when we're experiencing problems we need to resolve.  The Historical camps don't "make the fest", but they do provide an self-sustaining and self-regulating infrastructure and framework for campers to exist in. 

That being said, we need newbies!   Without a regular influx of new people to bring in new ideas, new talents, new smiles and new love, we risk stagnating and becoming stale and boring.  So we welcome newbies, we want you there.  We want you to have fun, we want to make you part of the family.  We want to love you.  But we also expect a certain respect for the traditions we've developed over time.  This doesn't mean we expect you to defer to us and treat us like your superiors at all, we just don't expect you to come into our living room and crap on our coffee table, if we crap in the kitchen sink.

And that's all part of the gig now.  Our traditions are part of the Town park experience.   If you want "in" to town park, and you don't care if any of the old-timers/veterans/historical camps get in, then you don't get it.  That's like wanting to go to a concert hall when it's empty, ordering a steak without the meat, or drinking non-alcoholic beer.   

When I started wandering into Town park 23 years ago, I learned from anyone I met who had been there before me.  It helped me feel like I was "home".  Now, when i return "home" every June, I know the family members will be different, and I'll meet some new ones.  That's awesome, and I can't wait to do it again with you all in a few short months!

[landshark]

Oh what the heck...I'll throw in my 2¢ here...I should probably get at least 1¢ change though 

  The Historical camps don't "make the fest", but they do provide an self-sustaining and self-regulating infrastructure and framework for campers to exist in. 

  Our traditions are part of the Town park experience.   If you want "in" to town park, and you don't care if any of the old-timers/veterans/historical camps get in, then you don't get it.  That's like wanting to go to a concert hall when it's empty, ordering a steak without the meat, or drinking non-alcoholic beer.
(quote]

 

[TellurideTom]

Oh what the heck...I'll throw in my 2¢ here...I should probably get at least 1¢ change though 

I'll give you 5 cents change on that one Jeff.

The people in Town Park that "get it" all know and follow one sentiment; Sharing.
We share our space. We share our food. We share our happiness. We share our love.

The one thing we don't want to be is elitists. We want to share the joy that is being part of a community, a family, a gathering of friends.

If you want to come into Town Park and put up barricades so nobody trespasses on your scene then we would rather you find some other place to "enjoy" yourselves.

It's still the summer of love for us old hippies and that's the way we plan to stay.

Let's just hope that as we age we can still be young enough to carry on some of those traditions.

[AnythingAtAll]

Damn, I love you guys (and I haven't even met Jeff (HuckinFappy) yet.) 

Dancinfingers, aaronacp15, et al, I hope some of these posts have helped illuminate and provided some enlightenment. Please realize that words inevitably fall short.  John and Jeff post some eloquent examples, then Tom blows me away with. "It's still the summer of love for us old hippies..." I owe you another beer for making my eyes water, you old hippie. 

Let's get some parameters straight, ok?  If any of us could wave a magic wand and make TP 2 or 3 or 7 times bigger, we'd do it in a heartbeat.  I know it can appear exclusionary, but it's not intended that way, it's a matter of physical limitations forming a constraint.

The fest is a precarious balance of desire and community, (friendly) competition and egalitarianism.

You know the types of people that renew your faith in humanity? Well, in my (limited) experience, TP contains an abundance of these, an inverse proportion typically found in our society at large.  They are the rule there, rather than the exception.  You want to see these folks there, year after year. They are the shining lights that renew your spirit. Some refer to them as family, I am proud to call many of them friends. (It's not all sunshine and roses and there are a-#0les, but they're vastly outnumbered and you forget those quickly.) We want it all though, old friends and new. We also know that the vast majority of fest-goers are wonderful people too, would fit right in and contribute to the great experience.  Looking to keep old friends in the loop and to keep the the events, traditions and spirit of TP alive from festival to festival is simply that, it isn't based on a desire to keep new friends out (although I know it may come across that way at times.)  This is where we hit the constraint thing.  To a large extent, we'll leave it to the lottery to determine the mix.

Camps aren't just camps, they're comprised of people.  It's those people that, together, create another facet that amplifies the musical experience beyond the sum of the parts, sometimes to a transcendent experience.

I don't perceive earlier posts in the thread as complaining. Folks are just concerned with the implications of the change of WF to lottery.  Many understandably prefer Warner Field and this is a change to the virtual guarantee of getting tix online in December. To those that prefer Town Park, WF has been somewhat of a safety valve.  Not too long ago, tickets for Warner would be available for weeks. Last year it was measured in minutes and traffic hosed up the server. This an an inevitable change that has been coming, and it's normal to be concerned about it, but it's no different from when TP went to lottery.  It is just a little shocking to think about how far the festival has come in terms of popularity and ticket (any ticket) demand.

Ahhh, constraints and the burdens of success... 

[landshark]

"Damn, I love you guys (and I haven't even met Jeff (HuckinFappy) yet.)"

Me too!  

[swander99]

"It's still the summer of love for us old hippies..." I owe you another beer for making my eyes water, you old hippie.      Amen!

I don't perceive earlier posts in the thread as complaining. Folks are just concerned with the implications of the change of WF to lottery.  Many understandably prefer Warner Field and this is a change to the virtual guarantee of getting tix online in December. To those that prefer Town Park, WF has been somewhat of a safety valve.  Not too long ago, tickets for Warner would be available for weeks. Last year it was measured in minutes and traffic hosed up the server. This an an inevitable change that has been coming, and it's normal to be concerned about it, but it's no different from when TP went to lottery.  It is just a little shocking to think about how far the festival has come in terms of popularity and ticket (any ticket) demand.

Ahhh, constraints and the burdens of success... 

Exactly! Well typed, AAA.  Got to get these finger-crossed calluses built up. 
p.s. Who's this "Ron" character of "SUR" fame? Has he bought or sold a TBF ticket in the last five years? (Dammit, now I'll prob get knocked back to Noob status with him...sigh. )

 Listening to: wdvx online in heart(flat)land office

[Ron N Deb]

Howdy Swander !
My Name is Ron Castillo !
and I am a Festivarain...
I am the Unofficial Concierge of Town Park ...One of the founding Members of Camp WanderIn ..
and a few other things I would rather  not mention...
Along with Our Family ...we try to help find the extra ticket holders ...Find a Home with one of us ..or a newbe !

I believe All my Info is on my profile should you or anyone needs to get in touch with me !
Peace !
 

[Skubes]

I ended up camping with Run a Muck, even though I didn't know any of them and had an amazing time. Festivarians from all camps (WanderIn, Tikki, Cascadia, Pink Elephant, Duk Tape etc. etc.) welcomed me into the fold and family.

The Historical Camps are an incredibly welcoming group of people and are by no means trying to exclude newcomers and festivirgins. Every year, virgins from all across the country find home with the Historical Camps and many of them return and become festi-vets themselves.

The Veterans aren't trying to exclude anyone from Town Park, either. Most of these camps put on a myriad of events for the Town Park community that anyone and everyone is welcome to attend. The veterans are some of the greatest people I've ever met. If you wander into their campground in the middle of the night, they're not going to kick you out or give you the cold shoulder. They'll give you a seat where you can watch the picking, or a home-made drink that you'll probably regret in the morning. The Historical Camps may not make the festival, but they definitely make Town Park. Without these events and people, TP wouldn't be anywhere near as in demand as it is. We all come together, newcomers and veterans alike, every summer because we love music and we love community and we love to help one another. That's what this festival represents to me.

Sug, your words and experience mirror my own.  My summer and PTO are already planned around these 10 days for the exact reasons stated above.  Not sure I can handle the butterflies in my stomach through mid-November.  Nervous with anticipation and hope that the ticket goddess may forever keep us all in her favor!