WARNER FIELD LOTTERY!!

[dancingfingers]

A comment from the peanut gallery. I'm not sure if everybody would agree that the historical camps are what make the fest. I know I don't. With a fest that had become as popular as Telluride, the people who end up camping further out in the less desirable places deserve an opportunity to get some "prime land". I think that is fair. If some old timers have to camp at the high school so some new people can experience TP or Warner is that bad? You can't set up a pecking order or it jusy becomes a good ole boys club. Lotteries are the direction things are going and the bright side is that it's a fair way to give everyone who wants a shot, a fair shot and some new excitement come land grab time. I see it as all good. So some old timet ends up camping out of town, the experience on the music field will be as always. Nothing but good.

 Listening to: Gillian Welch

[ShatteredArm]

A comment from the peanut gallery. I'm not sure if everybody would agree that the historical camps are what make the fest. I know I don't. With a fest that had become as popular as Telluride, the people who end up camping further out in the less desirable places deserve an opportunity to get some "prime land". I think that is fair. If some old timers have to camp at the high school so some new people can experience TP or Warner is that bad? You can't set up a pecking order or it jusy becomes a good ole boys club. Lotteries are the direction things are going and the bright side is that it's a fair way to give everyone who wants a shot, a fair shot and some new excitement come land grab time. I see it as all good. So some old timet ends up camping out of town, the experience on the music field will be as always. Nothing but good.

Agreed.  Some of us might even suggest that the music is what makes the festival.  Absurd, right?  That, and all the friendly people in the audience, but those people are spread out among the different campgrounds and the hotels/condos in Telluride and Mountain Village.  I don't even know that I've even met anyone in the "historical camps."

I do hope people who have attended from the beginning can continue to attend.  And I don't see anything currently preventing that.  But complaining that you don't get to always camp exactly where you'd like sounds a bit like sour grapes.  The thing that makes the festival great is that it is a community, and in a real community, nobody gets special privileges and entitlements that others don't get.

[landshark]

OH BROTHER!!!!! So literal

Yes indeedy the music is why we are all there. However if you have ever strolled TP at night heard the music at the camp pics and seen the party and BBQ's that go on it is as much of the Fest as the music. This is not a concert folks, it's called fest, why, because we FESSSSSSSTIIIIIIIIVATEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Part of the ticket thang is just a symptom of people trying to cover for another (Family) member. So you get 30 folks all buying up the TP tickets to cover one another. I have always thought that solving a problem is easier if you identify it first.

Newbies do not come with a set of instruction taped to their Lawnchair and it is my own personal conclusion that some of these new Festivarians need to learn how to, share, give, tolerate and party with a Fest crowd. We do need to keep the original flavor of fest alive and it is up to us Vets to do so.

True I like my Condo and you could not pay me to sleep on the ground, been there done that.
However I was embraced by all the camps(almost all) because I wanted to jam at night after Fest.
 I think you are indeedy speaking from the peanut gallery and old blood is good blood if it is all inclusive and not one big click.

I still stand by my solution and that is many of us have included this fest into our lives since its conception and for that reason alone the Planet should applaud us and treat us like family because we are. A list of Vets should have first serve at TP and Warner to keep the tradition alive and to keep the newbies on track. Not all Vets go every year so yes there will be plenty of tickets left for the Newbie

I know not to popular with you I bet, but then again it's about connecting to the music for some as well as the people that gravitate to this beautiful happening every summer for others.. For me it is a part of my life. Even through transition I arrange my Summers around this Fest and not being able to go would really make me sad.....

Woodstock, not to many folks know that family but it is that culture that we cultivate, brotherhood, kinship. The people that attend this fest ARE just as important as the music.

[landshark]

[quote )
 in a real community, nobody gets special privileges and entitlements that others don't get.
[/quote]

What world do you live in?

[johnny]

[/quote]

All kidding aside, it is the historical camps that make the fest and it would be a crime not to figure out a way for these folks(family) to come together for fest. That is the true essence of fest, playing together for  24/4
[/quote]

How can you say the  traditional camps 'make the fest' when only about 10% of festival attendees can actually see them, since you must be in TP or Warner to get over there? 

I figured a lottery was coming, I guess it makes sense. 

 Listening to: Trampled by Turtles

[landshark]

Don't take that so literal J man. How about this folks, " the traditional camps add to the Fest" . 

GEEEESH

RELAX! This is not a call for war we are on a forum, so serious, that's exactly what I mean by needing a vet to show the way.
Don't take me so seriously. This is just my opinion like it or not . 

And just for the record I have never camped at W or TP but I have purchased a ticket to get inside to play. And just for the record I have been pulled into the camps for all the fun that ensues and that is why you are missin the whole enchilada my friend. It is about kinship, our history and connection to the Fest,  common ground, R & R and music. Not only the great lineup on the stage but also feeding off of eachothers talent in the campgrounds....which I hope to do this June.

Please do not take me sooooo literal.
And I have to add, what defines the mean is the repeats and we are strong in numbers, not just the campers but all the folks that come year after year.

OK I'm done here I have to go move heavy furniture now.

Have a great day 

[dayton]

With a fest that had become as popular as Telluride, the people who end up camping further out in the less desirable places deserve an opportunity to get some "prime land". I think that is fair.

I'm so happy to hear this because I'm sure there are many camps who look forward to you producing the following that others have been enjoying:

 - Rum Balls
 - Blood Mary Monday
 - Oyster Fest which special guest stars including Tim O'Brien
- Tropical Tuesday
 - Pete K's Neil Young and Grateful Dead set
- New Year's Eve Party
 - Goddess Walkabout

I am immensely grateful for the Historical Camps and find myself to be still somewhat of a Newbie since my first TBF was only in 2009.  So with that being said, I respond to this debate with the following:

Danicing Fingers & Billy Beru... Both good points...  Newbies deserve an opportunity for prime land AND Historical Camps deserve to continue Festivating in their traditional ways for the sake of TP, WF, and the TBF in general.

As much as I will eat my own words saying this... a TP and WF lottery seems like a good move to keep the tickets a fair prize for us all come November.


 

 Listening to: Grateful Dead - Meadowlands 10/11/89

[ShatteredArm]

Just brainstorming here...

Run a lottery as follows:
* Allocate one portion the tickets using a lottery in which only repeat customers can be drawn (size it relative to what percentage of customers are repeat).
* Allocate the rest of the tickets using a lottery in which anybody who did not get a ticket in the first lottery can be drawn.

That way, anybody can get in, but the odds are weighted in favor of repeat customers.  Furthermore, if the proportion of new customers to repeat customers increases, that advantage decreases.  If the amount of available tickets decreases relative to the total number of people who want them, the repeat customers' advantage increases (though their overall odds decrease).

[landshark]

I just had a really funny idea...does anyone remember S & H Green Stamps. For every dollar you spend you get a stamp and when your book is full of stamps you get to redeem them for merchandise . So why not for each fest you attend you get a stamp collected in a book and when your syber book is full you can redeem this book for choice real estate, TP or Warner

[landshark]

Just brainstorming here...

Run a lottery as follows:
* Allocate one portion the tickets using a lottery in which only repeat customers can be drawn (size it relative to what percentage of customers are repeat).
* Allocate the rest of the tickets using a lottery in which anybody who did not get a ticket in the first lottery can be drawn.

That way, anybody can get in, but the odds are weighted in favor of repeat customers.  Furthermore, if the proportion of new customers to repeat customers increases, that advantage decreases.  If the amount of available tickets decreases relative to the total number of people who want them, the repeat customers' advantage increases (though their overall odds decrease).

SSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEee thats what I'm talkin bout! I like that S

[completejohn]

While I believe that everyone deserves a fair shot at TP tickets (which I will certainly disagree with upon getting shut out next year), the reason that the traditional camps and associated campers are preferable is that they "get it". 

I've been attending for the last 12 years or so, and have always been SO enamored by the community feeling you get in TP.  One year on the Wednesday night before fest, I had my tent all set up and was suddenly told to move cuz it was too close to the river (there was no signage nor yellow tape so I was NOT happy).  But I had to move so I walked around and just asked people if this tarp was REALLY taken, how about that one, etc.  Finally, one of the Fishboners (probably need a better name for them) told me to stand by.  He went around to everyone he knew, and came back to me with a space AND people to help me move. 

The next year, I again had to arrive late, and had no untarped area anywhere in sight.  Ron & Deb to the rescue - "here ya go - you can set up right here.  Now let me help you with that tent." 

TP veterans helping out.  And then there was THIS year...

We arrive at TP on the Friday before the fest.  I had never seen TP so crowded with tarps.  But knowing that there was plenty of untarped spaces between the huge tarps, we started to set up camp.  "Hey, this is OURS!", sid the irate man.  Huh?  Yours?  "Yes OURS!  We paid to be here in this campground, and so it's totally OURS."  Well, sure, but tomorrow morning at 8am, it's open, so would you mind me setting up here where there is NOT a tarp?  "Yes!  This is ours and we're going to add even more tarps."  I'm not looking for much space here... "It doesn't matter - this is ours.  Do you want us to call the authorities?"  Whoa, all these spots are going to be filled - have you ever camped here in TP?   "No, but we are within our rights!"  Jeez,  you apparently don't understand what TP is all about.  We'll look elsewhere (dickhead).

Next area, next newbie, same outcome.  As they said in the Holy Grail, they had "HUUUUGE Tracts of land" but they OWNED them.  Uh, ok.

We eventually found a place, and were not at all surprised to see empty tarps and large camp-able areas still there in "their" land throughout the entire festival.  One of the groups used a huge tent-able area to park their bikes.

The newbies, so worried that their camp just wasn't big or exclusive enough, just didn't understand the festivarian spirit.  Their thoughts were to keep people away, instead of helping the person who could soon be your next new friend. 

So yeah, everyone should get a chance at TP tickets.  But the newbies need to listen to the vets on what an honor it is to have t TP ticket, and that they have to do their best to be true festivarians.

(Sorry for this rant.  Last year's un-fest-like interactions really got me upset, and seeing perfect camping spots go to waste is just stupid.  I just hope this "everyone for themselves" attitude was an aberation!)


 Listening to: Tim & Darrrell new live CD

[aaronacp15]

Myself and a large group of friends attended TBF for the first time this year, and we all had an incredible time while camping at the Lawson Hill campground. Obviously I have no dog in the Warner Field fight.

With that said, can someone explain to me what is Festivarian about trying to exclude newbs from attending the festival, or to be more specific, staying in certain campgrounds? I understand that many of you have been attending this festival for years, but I don't want to live in a society that "THAT'S THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN" is an acceptable argument. Enlighten me, folks.

[Hot Sugar]

I've been thinking about this a lot. I didn't want to post and stir the pot more, but here goes. I've been coming to Telluride for five years now. I spent my first two years in Illium and loved it.

My third year, my brother and I were able to score Town Park tickets for our group and ended up camping by the river. The year after that, my brother was unable to make it, so I went by myself. I arrived in Town Park without a real idea of where I was going to camp, but was quickly approached by a few different "Historical Camps." I ended up camping with Run a Muck, even though I didn't know any of them and had an amazing time. Festivarians from all camps (WanderIn, Tikki, Cascadia, Pink Elephant, Duk Tape etc. etc.) welcomed me into the fold and family.

The Historical Camps are an incredibly welcoming group of people and are by no means trying to exclude newcomers and festivirgins. Every year, virgins from all across the country find home with the Historical Camps and many of them return and become festi-vets themselves.

The Veterans aren't trying to exclude anyone from Town Park, either. Most of these camps put on a myriad of events for the Town Park community that anyone and everyone is welcome to attend. The veterans are some of the greatest people I've ever met. If you wander into their campground in the middle of the night, they're not going to kick you out or give you the cold shoulder. They'll give you a seat where you can watch the picking, or a home-made drink that you'll probably regret in the morning. The Historical Camps may not make the festival, but they definitely make Town Park. Without these events and people, TP wouldn't be anywhere near as in demand as it is. We all come together, newcomers and veterans alike, every summer because we love music and we love community and we love to help one another. That's what this festival represents to me.

[Pilgrim99]

And just for the record I have never camped at W or TP but I have purchased a ticket to get inside to play.

With all due respect, and I'm not suggesting you don't have a right to do this, but it does add to the "exclusion" some folks are discussing here. If you're going to stay in a condo, taking up a TP wristband means one less newbie (or someone else) can stay in TP and experience all the TP culture. I've been able to camp in TP once in the last 5 years. It was fun. But I wouldn't take a ticket I didn't plan on using. I can have enough fun with my festifamily inside the grounds and at nightgrass, etc., without keeping someone else out of a campsite.

[Rob_from_Ohio]

Hot Sugar -

Well said.  I've been coming to TBF for 16 years and I've never camped in TP or WF, so I don't really have any skin in this game.  I think some of the comments from the TP vets that "get it" came off sounding pretty bad, although that probably wasn't the intention.  Your comments are really much more in line with what I believe the true spirit of TP to be.  I hope all you vets and traditional camps get the campsites you need and that you meet and befriend some newbies too.

Have a great day.