Pre Fest Security and theivery

[Hippie]

I've been giving this a lot of thought the past few days and think it's time to put it out to our most trusted community members.

You all probably know about the increased rash of thievery and elevated encounters with many unsavory people during the ABGAT this year in Town Park campground. While this is not a recent development, it has been going on for years, and has become an issue that deserves discussion. I hope to be rational and non combative about all of this.

During the celebratory activities on Tuesday one of my trusted campmates observed some of the "unsavory characters" behaving in a very suspicious fashion in the primitive area. During his attempts to escort these folks out of town park one of them received a small stab wound that required the attention of the local clinic. The town marshal had to become involved in all of this. The next day I was stopped on the street by a town detective and submitted to an ID check, questioning, and request to be photographed because he believed I fit the description the victim gave of the person who made the assault. This, needless to say, put a huge damper on my festival experience.

We have all experienced the increase of minor thievery, mostly booze and beer, by folks during the pre fest activities for years. This has all been accepted as just a part of being careful as we move in and anticipate the joyous celebration of festival. Our festi neighbors have always looked out for each other and been more than welcoming to any locals  who may stumble through camp. My town friends who have come over to share in our festivities have always been amazed at our camaraderie and sense of community. They all have expressed thanks at having been "turned onto the scene" in Town Park.

What we seem to have here is a whole different element of disenfranchised folks who seem to feel entitled to use the campground as their very own shopping center. Cell phones, booze, beer, and other personal possessions seem to the items of choice. What can we do to stop this from happening?

Here is one simple solution that might be a start:

We are all members of a very close yet widely knit clan of music lovers who have always been responsible and loving towards each and every one of ourselves. When minor problems and issues arise we have all dealt with it in a gentle, non confrontational way without needing the involvement of the local law enforcement. This is something that should not change.

I would suggest that we all get our wristbands as soon as possible after our arrival in camp. We all should be vigilant in observing those folks without a band on their wrist. Engage them in non confrontational conversation, include them in a camp activity, offer them a free meal. If things get ugly, ask them to move on to a safer place. They don't want local law enforcement involved any more than we do.

What I would really hate to see happen is that we become an enclosed enclave of "invaders" with a "gated" community inside of one of the most beautiful places on earth. I understand the need for secure access during the festival, I promote and manage music events weekly, its part of the job. Why not figure a way to share our good fortune with those in the local community? Find a way to welcome them into the festivarian fold, be vigilant in observing the unsavory ones, and help give a hand up to those that may need it.

That's probably the utopia we've been striving for anyway after all of these years.

Let the discussion begin.

[Auntie Hope]

Pretty sure the Planet is addressing this issue.

I like your ideas, Mr. Hippie! 

Auntie Hope 

[flyfishindave]

I've been giving this a lot of thought the past few days and think it's time to put it out to our most trusted community members.

You all probably know about the increased rash of thievery and elevated encounters with many unsavory people during the ABGAT this year in Town Park campground. While this is not a recent development, it has been going on for years, and has become an issue that deserves discussion. I hope to be rational and non combative about all of this.

During the celebratory activities on Tuesday one of my trusted campmates observed some of the "unsavory characters" behaving in a very suspicious fashion in the primitive area. During his attempts to escort these folks out of town park one of them received a small stab wound that required the attention of the local clinic. The town marshal had to become involved in all of this. The next day I was stopped on the street by a town detective and submitted to an ID check, questioning, and request to be photographed because he believed I fit the description the victim gave of the person who made the assault. This, needless to say, put a huge damper on my festival experience.

We have all experienced the increase of minor thievery, mostly booze and beer, by folks during the pre fest activities for years. This has all been accepted as just a part of being careful as we move in and anticipate the joyous celebration of festival. Our festi neighbors have always looked out for each other and been more than welcoming to any locals  who may stumble through camp. My town friends who have come over to share in our festivities have always been amazed at our camaraderie and sense of community. They all have expressed thanks at having been "turned onto the scene" in Town Park.

What we seem to have here is a whole different element of disenfranchised folks who seem to feel entitled to use the campground as their very own shopping center. Cell phones, booze, beer, and other personal possessions seem to the items of choice. What can we do to stop this from happening?

Here is one simple solution that might be a start:

We are all members of a very close yet widely knit clan of music lovers who have always been responsible and loving towards each and every one of ourselves. When minor problems and issues arise we have all dealt with it in a gentle, non confrontational way without needing the involvement of the local law enforcement. This is something that should not change.

I would suggest that we all get our wristbands as soon as possible after our arrival in camp. We all should be vigilant in observing those folks without a band on their wrist. Engage them in non confrontational conversation, include them in a camp activity, offer them a free meal. If things get ugly, ask them to move on to a safer place. They don't want local law enforcement involved any more than we do.

What I would really hate to see happen is that we become an enclosed enclave of "invaders" with a "gated" community inside of one of the most beautiful places on earth. I understand the need for secure access during the festival, I promote and manage music events weekly, its part of the job. Why not figure a way to share our good fortune with those in the local community? Find a way to welcome them into the festivarian fold, be vigilant in observing the unsavory ones, and help give a hand up to those that may need it.

That's probably the utopia we've been striving for anyway after all of these years.



Let the discussion begin.




I think your ideas presented here are outstanding Hippie..."try, try, try and you will only come to this conclusion"     

 Listening to: Love and Marriage Sinatra

[Courtney]

First the story, not meant to belittle stolen phones or Jerry's "super-bad" nightmare and second the suggestions:

I had the opportunity to catch and feed one of the thieves personally.  I, being the early riser that I am, saw a guy walking over the fences by our kitchen.  He had a white package under his arm which I thought was our package of steaks.   I stopped him, noticed and questioned him about the propane in his hands.  He handed me the propane and lantern he had taken.  I explained that I'm a school teacher and I save all year for this "vacation" and I couldn't afford to have him steal from our camp.  He was humble, and apologetic.  I asked about the package he dropped in the distance.  The irony is while I thought from a distance he was stealing our steaks, he choose to take the puff pastry dough.  The picture on the package was what he was after I'm sure.  I can't imagine what his girlfriend would have said when he returned with dough they couldn't eat or use.  He thanked me for being so "cool", I told him I was not cool and if it happened again I would call the cops.  The next day they were walking past camp into the hills where they had taken up residence.  I asked if they were hungry, he said no, his friend said yes.  I wrapped up the breakfast leftovers and when I handed it over, I looked him in the eye and said "This means nothing gets stolen from our camp, right?", "yes maaaam, no maaam, etc"  Later there was more to the story with a series of visits from police and animal control due to a stray dog and a "line up" (not really, but that was the rumor). The animal control and deputies visited, I could identify the thieves so there was much conversation.  Between all this activity there was much patience and discussion between the "cops" and my camp.  After most of the "action" had passed, the animal control sheriff came by and awarded me an official "Junior Deputy of Telluride" star which I have on my hat.  My motto "Don't mess with me or I might have to feed you breakfast".

I did not know about Jerry's story and the "stabbing". I don't think escorting these folks out of camp is wise without Tim or a representative from the town.  I don't know what the answer is, but this begs complications as seen from Jerry's story.   

The "kids" (early 20's) that I caught were down on their luck.  They had hitch-hiked into town and ran out of money.  When the sheriffs "escorted" them out of their illegal campsite, they had found a bunch of food at their camp.  There sheriffs were pretty sure they could not have afforded to purchase all that food.  There was also some part of the story that dealt with stolen bunnies.....

I don't think there is just one thief, or just one thief profile.  The ages of the vagabonds varies with their circumstance.  I also think there may be an element of "town" juveniles that might be a part of this.  I also know first hand that some of the booze stealing came from an invited guest of a festivarian.  My own liquor was stolen in a previous year from neighboring campers that I wouldn't call festivarians.  Some of the ticket holders are not, in my opinion, festivarians.

I'm not a fan of "the police will take care of it" in the same way I'm not a fan of "the planet BG folks will take care of it".  What can they really do beyond what they already do? 

If you leave your cell phone in the bathroom, especially during abgat week when there are not so many festivarians there, that's not a very wise thing to do.  So I have no suggestions for that except stay with your phone when you charge it.

As for the folks that steal liquor because they can, I am going to put hinges and locks on our coolers.  I think we make it very easy for people to come by and take what they like.  They see the abundance and feel free.  I'm going to get the locks that have words for combinations.  The code will be "swordfish".  Just so you know. 

As for the folks that steal because they are hungry and down on their luck, I wish we could organize a location where you can bring carefully packaged leftovers and a time of day.  I can't imagine the amount of food that gets thrown away - that someone who is hungry will gladly eat.  Of course with any thing, there are pros and cons.

It might be a good idea to come up with a 8x10 laminated sign, with the motto or idea that if you need help, ask.  That while we don't tolerate stealing, we do understand that some are more fortunate than others, and we can share what we can share.

I do think that the Telluride police want the same things we do.  It might not be a bad idea to ask them or Tim, how to best handle the situation.  I think if we take some simple steps to secure our belongings and try to help those in need, we might generate or rejuvenate our festivarian lifestyle we love so much.



 

 Listening to: The air conditioner

[Bevin]

Hippie, you did a really good job of enjoying yourself without letting that incident get you down all week. Thanks for containing those bad vibes and shipping them off by themselves. You rule.

Courtney, that was a amazing thing you did - killing them with kindness. Out of over 10,000 people in attendance every year, you are in my Top 1. You deserve that Deputy's badge, along with some special recognition from the entire Town Park community.

However, I for one don't completely agree with the kinder, gentler approach. I save all year, too, and spend good money to come to Telluride. I expect my campground to be at least a little bit secure. And I have no interest in converting the local homeless freaks and degenerates into Festivarians. You either get it or you don't. I regularly help the needy during my non-festival life - I don't come to Telluride to feed and turn on some thieving jerk.

In spite of the apparent year over year increase in thievery, I witnessed more than a couple total security breakdowns this year. Pre-fest security and during-the-fest security are separate issues, but we have problems with both.

I agree that the earlier we implement wristband control, the easier it will be for the Planet to manage the security of the campground. Tim does a great job, but he can't be everywhere at once, and he's not actually a security guy. We need wristband control during pre-fest, but even more than that, we need Telluride Marshall intervention way, way before Bear Creek preserve land rush. These new degenerates, driven by desperation and stupidity, set up house in the woods behind the waterfall and live there all summer, waiting for us and our festival bounty to arrive. The Town of Telluride may be able to tolerate a few homeless during the rest of the year, but we should have no tolerance for this crap during our week in the Park.

If this happens with such predictability, why is it still happening?

So in my opinion, we should be encouraging the Planet to implement wristband control beginning the Saturday before the festival. And the Town Marshalls should start encouraging the degenerates to clear out - all the way out - before we even arrive. I'd even pay more for my ticket if it meant a more secure camping experience.

Campground security during the festival was practically non-existent as well. Every single night after the festival a friend of a friend, with no Town Park wristband, was able to waltz right past the sleepy folks at the campground gate. On Friday night after the last set, someone opened the gate beside the First Aid Tent and I followed a crowd of about 100 people up the hill towards the waterfall. They made it to the MASH tent before they realized they weren't headed into town and turned around. But the campground was already full of potential "shoppers" at that point. Rather than enjoy the jam at the Tiki Bar, I felt I had to go stand guard over my stuff. At midnight. The breakdown in security at the Town Park festival gate happened every night. I even asked the security folks at the gate about security post-show, and they as much as admitted that there's only so much they can do. Except they aren't even doing anything at all beyond saying "wristbands, please" and then looking the other way.

I don't expect that the Planet is intentionally sending a message that you don't really need a wristband for Town Park. But really, you don't at this point. Just help yourself - free camping, free food and all the stolen booze you can drink. And the volunteers at the gate will never notice that you have no Town Park wristband.

If the Planet can't take responsibility for merely keeping the campground secure during the festival, we'll all get ripped off by the stupid local teens who come in specifically to steal booze, in addition to the other degenerates.

I'm sure I'll have more to say later - never fails.

[landshark]

    Adding a security team is the only way to legally enforce any type of ejection from a park ..
Not so sure thats a good vibe builder, although the officers that work fest are very nice and good natured...

 A park is open to all before fest. Not sure we can change any laws for TBF

 Maybe an ABGAT wrist band that includes a fee for added security service???? You have a great idea there Bev.

I am on your side Kevin but I just don't see it as PBG's job BEFORE fest..

Playing devils advocate here..   

I think PBG should rent lockers rolled in like portapotty, renters insurance included, you provide your own lock, one key to PBG, one to you, you lose it once PBG got you covered, you lose your key twice, Pbg cuts your lock and evics you for a new tenant. all maned by video cameras and just a few security to watch... Trouble insues,,call 911 it's all on tape.  And yer covered for your loss. And PBG is covered as well.



 Listening to: possible festi points flyin off me like bad guys off supermannnnnnnnnn

[Ron N Deb]

Bevin ....My Brother !
Ty for the Post !

I now have the  Sherriff Office on my phone
cause of all the incidents...

we need MORE ....at the inbound  points Like at the Gate coming into TP High side
around Town Hall / Runa Muck
Back side the decent into TP at the Falls !
I/we escorted more that 10 outta Tp ..
and had one incident..

[FaceOnMars]

So in my opinion, we should be encouraging the Planet to implement wristband control beginning the Saturday before the festival. And the Town Marshalls should start encouraging the degenerates to clear out - all the way out - before we even arrive.

Bevin, I'm totally with you to try and mitigate nefarious activity in the campground; however, please know that from a local's perspective, restricting access to the campground for 10 days is VERY obstrusive ... especially in light of the fact that the TBF is one of a dozen festivals which restrict public access to Town Park in one way or another over the course of a year.  I'm certainly not advocating a free for all, but I do believe the Wed -> Sunday (Monday) wristband control is appropriate.

In general, municipal parks are often gathering spots for people who are on the move ... and TTP is no different.   The Marshall's office knows this and I believe include TP as a stop on their regular "beat" throughout the year (especially in the summer).  I don't think it's unreasonable to increase their presence from Sat -> Wed before bluegrass, but ultimately it's up to everyone to look out for one another and maybe take an extra precaution here or there ... and hopefully not lose one's festivarian spirit in doing so.

[Courtney]

killing them with kindness. Out of over 10,000 people in attendance every year, you are in my Top 1.

Well now we have more in common 'cause you're one of mine too.  It wasn't intentional, I just saw my nephew in his situation. 

I think communication with the sheriff's prior to abgat, in a friendly cooperative sort of conversation would be wise. 

I also think not all the "vagrants" are the same, just as all wrist bearing festivarians are not the same.  I think if we have a multi-faceted approach, we will lesson the pain and burden of loosing stuff to hoodlumism.  (How's that for a new word?)   

I do hope the Planet is aware of all that went on.  You never know where the next brilliant idea is going to come from.

[Auntie Hope]

I do hope the Planet is aware of all that went on.  You never know where the next brilliant idea is going to come from.

For General Information...

Yes, the Planet is very aware of all that went on during TBF 2010. We were fortunate enough to have some of the staff camping with us on a daily basis. 

Auntie Hope 

[Cindy Lou]

or we could just shoot 'em on sight.
This IS the wild West after all.  Run 'em outta town on a rail like the good ol' days. I wonder what the miners did to thieves who stole their gold?

[meanderingjeeper]

surprised no one has mentioned the big pile of @#$%@$% feces in the men's shower on Tuesday following all that hub bub.

I must say there hasn't ever been a time that I haven't felt safe in Town Park.  The events of this year made me start to question that. 

I guess that didn't happen until Sunday night, though, as I was standing by camp talking to a friend and suddenly 3 men with flashlights came down the path, separated, and approached the 2 of us from different sides and started shining their flashlights in our faces.  We looked around and realized we were being pinned in and then started to be questioned by 3 Marshalls.  I kept trying to put my plate from my last piece of festival food in the way of the light so it wasn't directly shining in my face, but the Marshall made sure to keep moving it so it kept shining in my face. 

Then finally he said "Oh sorry about shining it in your face, but have you two seen someone just come running by here?  We're looking for someone that just ran across the bridge and came this way."  We looked at each other with the same bewildered look on our faces as we hadn't seen anyone and replied with "Uhhhhhhhh, no?"  Then they had a few more questions for us and proceeded to walk on their way down the path.  Saw those guys three other times that night and asked if they found their man, to which they replied very curtly "No."

Now, I realize all the strange things that happened this festival, in and of themselves, are not necessarily something I would concern myself with.  However, putting them all together, it does make me start to wonder just what in tarnation is going on around there.

I am definitely more wary when we visit town park at other times of the year.  Guess I'll just have to bring that vigilance (not vigilantism, mind you) to Festival too.

and as to what miners did to people they caught stealing their gold?  bet those folks were either never seen again or strung up on yonder tree.  as opposed to yonder mountain.

maybe it's just reflective of the way society has become in the last few years.


 Listening to: still hearing vuvuzelas

[HuckinFappy]

The guy they were looking for had assaulted a marshal.  He came running right through our camp looking pretty scared, and they came in 5 minutes later asking about him.  Given how many officers react when one of their own is attacked, I thought they all handled themselves very professionally.