Tarp Tantrums

[helixer]

I've been thinking about this for years. The tarp problem. This applies to all the PB festivals, and I think I have a solution. First the problem. The tarps take up too much space. Most have room for at least 3 times the amount of people on them. Half the folks go off and party etc. for the day and come back for the big names. The Festivarian Bill of Rights says (rightfully so of course) that it's OK to sit where there's empty space until said owners come back. Fair enough. Problem is, few people have the nerve. No one really does this because if one of the tarp's owners is there, it simply feels uncomfortable. People who waited in line all night just don't want you there- especially if it's a few of you. I work on crew and always have backstage- but I also like to hang out with the audience, so I'll always have a seat no matter what, and even I am bothered by this. I heard several musicians comment that the place looked half empty half the time- because it was. So you have  thousands of people crammed into the back of the grounds while half the tarps are empty!
  Here's what I propose: Limit tarp size to 6' x 8'. Turned sideways 4 people can sit there. If you need space for more people, then you need more people in line. Simple as that. I really think this would work. Or, eliminate tarps altogether. But the current system doesnt work except for a few people who can spend all night in line. The people who have jobs, that have to sit way in the back every time (who have no idea that Hot Rize and Redknuckles are one and the same because they can't see) agree with me...Iv'e talked to at least 20 of 'em Yesterday! Think about it. Thanks

 Listening to: Darrell Scott

[retsin2000]

For the record I and all my friends have jobs (Thank Goodness!) but we still manage to coordinate efforts and get numbers at night so we can get good spots. I make sure I have Friday for RockyGrass and FolksFest off as vacation days early every year. I've also for many years blown off getting a number and just gotten into line a couple hours before the gates open and have always gotten a pretty good spot. It isn't easy to get up close but it isn't that hard.

Yesterday for most of the day and all of the night we had people we didn't know (previously) on our tarp. The day before that I spent some time on an empty tarp. Great way to make new friends. You can sit on my tarp anytime you want helixer.

It also isn't hard in between sets to get up close in the dancing area. The only time I have ever been stuck in a "bad" spot is when we have showed up after the gates open and didn't make any effort to get a line number.

[reikipam]

I've never had a number, simply because I don't camp, therefore it's not possible for me to wait in line to get one.   I never have had a bad seat.   We have high back chairs so we do have to sit towards the back, but all weekend I got up and got close to the stage and had a ball.  We were seated in the center right in back of the speaker, and the sound was great, we had a good sightline of the stage.

There were 2 tarps next to us that NEVER had anyone sitting on them until 6pm at night.
I agree that it is uncomfortable to sit on someone else's tarp, but it is a good way to make friends.

For the most part I do think this works very well.
My bigger issue are people that bring umbrellas and don't realize that it blocks people's views behind them.

Great show this weekend... Loved it.


 Listening to: Thunder

[Pen]

My drawback to "borrowing" someones tarp is that by the time they return, I'm going to be really stuck for finding a good spot.

As it will be a few more years before we become campers again (pregnancy and kids ya know!), I don't expect to be close.  But as the OP said, it's a little disappointing to see so many empty tarps throughout most of the day.  On Sat we arrived about 30-45 minutes before the first act and had to pretty much squeeze in where there wasn't much of a spot in the far back.

No major complaints though.  Had a great time and met some really nice people.

[bluegrass bill]

I had no problems at all with the tarp line. My group got numbers 2 of the 3 nights. We only had three people in line at any one time. any extra numbers we had, we had given away to others who did not have any.
We always made room for others to join us, and did not ask anyone to move. All you need to do is ask. Also the numbers were handed out at a reasonable time. That was the best part...
I think this problem is solved. Thanks PBG.

[helixer]

I see everyone's point here, and they are good ones. It's also true that it's a good way to make friends (especially if you bring fresh squeezed lime and tequila with you) But as one of you did say, the occupants eventually come back, usually when things are just starting to really roll. Then you're faced with having to find a new 'homebase' so to speak. Yes, I know there's always a spot to stand when you want a look, but the bottom line is we all want a place to throw our stuff (packs, chairs, drinks, lunch, camera etc.) I just thought the idea of limiting tarp size takes care of everyone- Those who spend the night in line still get the best spots, those who can't can still get reasonably closer... Just to re iterate, as someone above did, I was surrounded by tarps on 3 sides-- ALL three days-- that were empty ALL DAY LONG until 7ish. When I was adjusting a mic during one set the place was almost 2/3 empty space, and I won't say who, but it was a great performer. Meanwhile, people were packed near the back 3rd of the grounds....I agree with all of you (hell, you're on this forum so I know you care for the festival) that many people are cool with having guests sit with them, but lets face it, for the reasons I mentioned above, it doesn't seem to happen much. And it's very much the same for Telluride. I'm not complaining here as much as I am trying to 'improve' shall we say...

 Listening to: Dixie Dregs, Big Smith and Victor Wooten

[TheOkieNoodler]

I'm with the OP.  There needs to be a fair balance established between rewarding those who stand in line and providing space for anyone who wants to be a little closer to the stage.  It really comes down to common sense and courtesy-- use only the space you need.  I like the smaller tarp idea but I also recognize that there are some truly large groups that utilize all of their tarp space.  The real frustrating thing is to see a group of 3-4-5 folks with a tarp space big enough for 20 chairs. 

Tarp greed might be more of a problem than the current policy.

However, I think limiting the size of tarps per person might be a fair solution.

[Pen]

You know what the coolest thing about Planet Bluegrass is?  That those in charge will actually read this and take recommendations under consideration.

God bless you guys for all you do.

[answerguru]

I don't know, but if the tarp is big enough for 20 and there are only a few there now, then I go and borrow some space...besides, I always meet the coolest people on other tarps!

These days, we have a really big group and don't usually fill up the tarp until later on in the day....and we happily share with others all day long.  I don't feel bad since people use our space when we aren't there and we usually have 6-8 people wait in line the night before -- then we give our extra line numbers away to those who weren't as fortunate.   Seems like a win-win all around to me.

[12_String]

Firstly, I thought the festival was fantastic, well organised and loved the idea that PB even set out a charter for the festival visitors including a tarp policy.

Now .... here's the but - as an individual or a couple travelling from overseas, getting in line every night just doesn't work - three very late nights followed by three tarp runs your ferstival is ruined.  We managed it one night and got a fairly low 87, by the time the tarp hit the floor, we were level with the relay speakers because people were throwing down enormous tarps (and I deliberately use the plural as we saw one guy with FOUR large taps). 

We flew from the UK for Rockygrass and I personally wanted to see as many bands as possible so we actually used the tarp all day & night, to see acres of empty space in front of you is very wasteful and surely not in the spirit of good Festivarianism (is that a word?).

One tarp per runner, apply a maximum size and then 'use it or lose it'.  If you don't want, or can't be bothered going to any of the daytime shows then do you really deserve to have prime tarp space saving for when you can be bothered to stroll down there?  I didn't want to miss the end of Steve Earle but I also wanted to catch Red Knuckles at the pavillion - by the time I got there, every chair had a beer glass, a hat or even a single glove 'saving' it.  I moved a glove up and sat down anyway .... does that make me a bad person or does somebody prepared to make a sacrifice deserve the seat more?

A fabulous weekend & I will definitely be coming back - but the selfish tarp greed was very dissapointing.

Oh.... and the umbrellas should be banned, period in the low back chair area.  Get a hood or enjoy the rain but PLEASE don't put up TWO golf umbrellas so that you can be cosy & dry whilst blocking the view of dozens of folk behind you.

There, tantrum over & I imagine a touchy subject so 10/10 to the OP.



 Listening to: Special Consensus - Down the Trail of Aching Hearts

[Mel]

I have squatted on my friends' tarps for the past two years. 

This past Saturday afternoon, I inadvertantly squatted on the tarp of some folks that weren't in the gang that I normally hang with.  They were absolutely gracious, and I didn't realize for about an hour that I was in the wrong space. 

My friends typically have at least one or more large tarps, and plenty of chairs.  I have never seen them turn anyone away, or even give sideways glances to someone who comes in and sits down.  During the day, the tarps were 1/2 to 3/4 full of people (generally around 10 people at any time).

There is always 6-8 people standing in line for the numbers, and they always give away the extra numbers. In fact, I ended up with an extra number, which I handed off to someone else because I wouldn't be running anywhere on Sunday.

It seems to me that the tarp run is part of the spirit of the fest, having/sharing tarps is part of the spirit, dancing is part of the spirit, and common courtesy is part of the spirit. 

If you're blocking someone's view, try to fix it.  If it's raining, do the best you can to have consideration for others, but geez, IT'S RAINING! I think everyone has the right to stay dry AND enjoy the music.  For those behind the umbrellas, maybe you can make a new friend and cozy up under one of those umbrellas.

Seriously, how many rules have to be made about tossing a stupid tarp?  Then, who will enforce it?  Are you going to have extra volunteers going around making sure that a whole bunch of drunk people standing in line at 3am are ORDERLY?  Then, some more volunteers going around scooping up tarps because no one is sitting on them?  Then more volunteers manning a 'tarp lost and found'? 

It seems to me that a friendly conversation would go much further and take monumentally less effort. 

Personally, next year, find me on the tarp and you can squat with me, I'll be the one who's talking loudly...

[Pen]

With all respect, I think you're missing our point Mel.  It's not ppl that use their tarps throughout the day that are being discussed.  It's the tarps that sit empty all day until the last 2-3 acts of the evening that make me scratch my head. 

Again, squatting doesn't work for families that are interested in seeing those last few acts.  We won't have anywhere to go when the "owners" come back home.

I wonder how the musicians feel about the distribution of the audiance from 11a-6p.

I'm sure it boils down to choosing the lesser of 2 evils.  The tarp run is great (I've done it a lot).  They need to keep the campers happy - they're the heart of the festival.  I'd be curious to know what percentage of the audiance doesn't camp.  If most of the attendees are campers, I'd want to structure it to accomodate the majority of the audiance.

Personally, I like the idea of tarp size.

Peace!

[retsin2000]

Again, squatting doesn't work for families that are interested in seeing those last few acts.  We won't have anywhere to go when the "owners" come back home.

When I've not gotten a spot up front I've just grabbed a spot in back. Then I go up front to squat (with little kids by the way if that makes any difference.) Then for the last few acts I go back to my "bad" spot. I'm never left with nowhere to go. The sound is great everywhere so it is no big deal to me if I'm in back at the end of the night. If it is important to me to be close I make sure I get a nunber.. A lot of the time I'm chasing my little kids around at the river so I pick and choose who I want to see up close.

We live in Lyons so we have it easy and try to get a number every night and do when they don't run out of numbers.  But you don't have to live in town or even be camping to get a number. We have several sets of friends that live in Longmont and they still get numbers every night. They even have little kids too. It can be done. This year the numbers were handed out early too. I think if it is really important to you to be up close for every act then get a number. I've always gotten one in the morning if I go down there a couple hours early when I haven't felt like staying up late.

I'm okay with specifying an official max tarp size but enforcement will be next to impossible so I'm not sure it will really help.

[helixer]

 Hey look- I'm not trying to throw down a bunch of rules that require enforcement...Most everyone here is addressing the tarp sharing aspect of their territory. It's nice that you share and welcome others. But 90% of the people don't want to take the chance of squatting on a big tarp with all their stuff knowing they MIGHT be squeezed out later. To those of you who think it's easy and convenient to sit on other tarps and meet new people, then why wait in line at all? I imagine it's because you want the security of having YOUR homebase and a guaranteed spot to watch the whole show.
   It feels awkward for me to walk to the front with a chair and plop it down on someone elses tarp. I feel guilty because I know they waited a long time to get the spot. That's why-despite what everyone is saying - the festival has empty tarps in every direction EXCEPT- you guessed it- the back, where people are crammed in.
  It would be easy to put up a sign and announce " One 8x10 tarp per spot in line"...You get what you want (a spot real close) I get what I want ( a spot reasonably close) and when the musicians look out they will see a sea of faces rather than mostly tarp space.  What's the point of taking up so much space just to see the groups toward the end of the day?
  For the record, I've never been 'turned away'  but in most cases I have been told that it's OK to stay until the others show up, and they usually do, right around dusk.  I say first come first serve.

 Listening to: David Bromberg, JGB, Heidi Claire

[Belle]

I have always thought that PB should adopt the wonderful system employed by the Strawberry Music Festival in California.  There, a large area in front of the stage (as wide as the stage and about 50 feet deep) is covered by "The Strawberry Tarp".  It is put there by the fest staff and pegged down.   Anyone may place a low-back chair on this tarp, in rows.  This means lots of seating up front for people willing to stand in the line and put their chair there when the gates open.   A lot of audience can fit on a tarp that size. 
Yes, you don't have a personal tarp space up front, but you can always set up a home base further back AND put some chairs in a row for up close watching/listening.  Also, the rule at Strawberry is that ANY chair on the Strawberry Tarp is free to sit in if empty until it's owner returns to it.  Chairs must be removed at the end of the evening, just like tarps.
The system works beautifully!