The Line for Numbers - necessary or just cruel?

[BanZoid]

I was taken aback by how late the numbers were handed out on Friday night.  Why wait until 3:30 when everyone who was going to be in line was there by 12:30 or 1:00?  The only reason I could come up with was to punish the festivarians with sleep deprivation, frustration, and anger.  Just who I want to spend my day with - tired grumpy people.

OK, maybe it is to keep the line down by faking out the remainder into thinking it will be forever.  Lame.  Just give a number to everyone in line up to say 500.  Start at 1:00, hand them out and move on. 

Or is there something here I am not getting?  In any case there has to be a better way.  Any ideas?

 Listening to: Buffalo Nickel

[Matt and Becky]

  In any case there has to be a better way.  Any ideas?

Yeah, quit buying tickets to planet bluegrass events!  Seriously, this happens every year.  Everyone bitches and nothing changes.  PB keeps selling out their events, so why change practices, right?  Who cares about the consumer...Screw 'em.   

[historyman]

The story we got from the numbers guy the next day was essentially: "yeah, a lot of people were pissed off, but people have to understand the history, traditionally we have given them out late, if everyone knew it was going to be 12:30 every time it would be too crazy."  And he implied the numbers handout would be early Saturday night, which it was.  I half forgave him when he handed me number 9 Saturday night.

What about some kind of random number being assigned for each night when you buy your ticket?  That would somehow stay hidden until an appropriate time, so you couldn't sell a ticket with an assigned low number for more than face.  They could hand you your three random line numbers when they gave you your wristband.

There really has to be a better way.  Sustain the festivarians!

[jjwood64]

To me...just hand out the numbers earlier, and just don't tell what
time that happens.  There was no reason that the numbers on Friday
night should have been issued later than 2 am.

However, this is all caused by demand.  Without the numbers system,
everyone would be waiting in line all night -- which to my understanding
was what caused PB to go to the numbers system.

I also cannot blame Matt for his sentiments, as he will find Grand Targhee
to be far more scaled down.  Unfortunately, Matt, due to starting a new
contract gig next week, i am now unable to make Targhee this year.    That
said, I am heavily considering skipping Telluride next year in favor of Targhee, as
part of the "sport" is admittedly growing a bit old on me.

[BanZoid]

So no one likes the way it is going, but no one has come up with a good solution?

Here's one shot: 

1) State that numbers will be distributed between 11:30 and 1:00.  This should be a long enough time that only the committed will stay to keep down the crowds.

2) Send out 6 people with numbers at a randomly appointed time.  One starts at the front and one starts at the end.  The other four are paired off.  Each pair starts at the same point working in opposite directions.  (That will prevent the festivarian on the other side from feeling gipped from not getting something his neighbor didn't.)

3) Each person has 100 numbers.  When they are gone, they are gone.  If you got a number, great.  If not, smile and go to bed happy because while you might not have a number, you DO have a ticket.

4) Announce all of this.  No secrets except the exact time.

So someone poke holes in this...why won't it work?

Craig?  Steve?  Are you listening?

Lindsay
Who likes historyman's line, "Sustain the Fesitvarians!"

[Dancin-feet]

Our camp talked this out and one suggestion that we have is to have people come up to the box office at 12:30 (or some appointed time) and pick up a random number, one at a time. Limit the quantity to what we use now. No line, no hassle. We all go and pick or go to bed and then line-up in the a.m. with big old smiles and our dancin shoes on!
... the Planet cares about us, it is just that the line grows over the years and so there are more of us to keep "happy"
It was frustrating on Friday for sure and it would be better to let us get more sleep so that we can enjoy the festival the next day (I mean, that day). What about the families with children? It is difficult for them to wait in line so late and to be up with the kids very early.
Any one else with thoughts?

 Listening to: "Don't worry, be happy"

[jjwood64]

Lindsay, I like your suggestions, but #2 is flawed.   Why? Because I've seen many
folks who have a number who run to near the end of the line to get another.
I would foresee many going from person to person getting several numbers, while
others would get shut out.  I can see why just having one person distributing
numbers make sense.

[landshark]

So no one likes the way it is going, but no one has come up with a good solution?

Here's one shot: 

1) State that numbers will be distributed between 11:30 and 1:00.  This should be a long enough time that only the committed will stay to keep down the crowds.

2) Send out 6 people with numbers at a randomly appointed time.  One starts at the front and one starts at the end.  The other four are paired off.  Each pair starts at the same point working in opposite directions.  (That will prevent the festivarian on the other side from feeling gipped from not getting something his neighbor didn't.)

3) Each person has 100 numbers.  When they are gone, they are gone.  If you got a number, great.  If not, smile and go to bed happy because while you might not have a number, you DO have a ticket.

4) Announce all of this.  No secrets except the exact time.

So someone poke holes in this...why won't it work?

Craig?  Steve?  Are you listening?

Lindsay
Who likes historyman's line, "Sustain the Fesitvarians!"

#1 The time you post 11:30-1:00 not sure why you think this will keep the crowds down.
I think it should be short and sweet. A ticket, a numbered wrist band , a draw each night after the last set. Sleep tight.....................

[Dean]

I was taken aback by how late the numbers were handed out on Friday night.  Why wait until 3:30 when everyone who was going to be in line was there by 12:30 or 1:00? 

The explanation I had was a certain staffer (not to mention names, let's call him/her the "E. D.") had a certain attitude. When this was pointed out to the higher ups, numbers were issued at a civilized time the next night.

If the numbers are truly random, meaning no one can predict who gets what, then PB can just hand out whatever volume of numbers it wants and everyone will be equally delighted/annoyed.

But what's the issue? It's not like there's a bad seat in the house. Shade is nice on hot days, but there's always the river or a vacant tarp under the trees.

[Ron N Deb]

So no one likes the way it is going, but no one has come up with a good solution?

Here's one shot: 

1) State that numbers will be distributed between 11:30 and 1:00.  This should be a long enough time that only the committed will stay to keep down the crowds.

2) Send out 6 people with numbers at a randomly appointed time.  One starts at the front and one starts at the end.  The other four are paired off.  Each pair starts at the same point working in opposite directions.  (That will prevent the festivarian on the other side from feeling gipped from not getting something his neighbor didn't.)

3) Each person has 100 numbers.  When they are gone, they are gone.  If you got a number, great.  If not, smile and go to bed happy because while you might not have a number, you DO have a ticket.

4) Announce all of this.  No secrets except the exact time.

So someone poke holes in this...why won't it work?

Craig?  Steve?  Are you listening?

Lindsay
Who likes historyman's line, "Sustain the Fesitvarians!"

Im kinda Digging this
but I do see the flaw too
But Thats always gonna happen
lets come up with a plan for all the fest that lets
us sleep !
we are getting Old !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not like I have ever in 15 years slept in Line ...
 

[apollo]

Here is my answer the line problem:

Between 12:30 and 2:30 you can go box office and get a number.
You get one number per number on your wrist band.

This makes people still have to show some desire to get a number, stay up a bit late, or wake up.

It prevents people from getting multiple numbers, if you get a number you really don't like have wake up somebody else in camp up and go get a number. Every camp I knew had more than one number this year, the guy who was number 1 on Sunday had pocket of 5 numbers.

It prevents people from lining up in the road.

It allows people to pick or sleep, two activities I'd rather do than sit in line listening to drunk people complain about no numbers being handed out

[reikipam]

This is a fabulous solution

[bluegrasslaura]

I have to say that the post that says we don't care about our customers is personally offensive to me. We all are awake at night thinking of solutions to problems large and small to make our customer's experience at little better every year, and the line is no exception. To suggest that because the show sells out, we don't care about our customers is so far from the truth I don't even know what else to say.

Anyway, I think a little history on how the current procedure came to be might be in order-

About 6 (give or take) years ago, we had an emergency Board of Directors meeting after RockyGrass to come up with a better procedure for the line. I was the Corporate Secretary at that time and was present at the meeting. Up until that point we had just let people form a line. But that year it became clear to us that we needed to step in and make some changes. We created the current number system with the following factors in mind-
1. We did not want to make the line any larger than it already was.
We did not want to take a line of 300 angry people and make a mob of 3,000 angry people.
2. We wanted to keep the element of "earning" your spot.
At that time, there was a history and a culture of earning your place on the field. Some people were very upset at the prospect of random numbers and wanted to be able to earn their spot.
3. It needed to be simple to understand and manage.

It sounds like #2 isn't a priority anymore, but 1 & 3 are still valid concerns.

I will also add that the subsequent years have made it clear that it needs to be able to be handled by one or two people if we do it at night. Speaking as the person who hires a lot of our staff, coming up with a large staff of well trained, sober staff members with excellent people skills who only want to work one hour in the middle of the night just isn't very easy to do. It isn't the kind of job people are volunteering for.

Some of the solutions are brilliant at first glance- your wristband number is your entry number, start with a different number every day. But, the details- we have more than one valid wristband for every day, we use leftover wristbands from other shows, the numbers on the wristband are small and would make the entry process a lot slower, the numbers wear off after sunscreen and the river, etc. make them impractical.

I love the idea of giving everyone who wants one a random number, but how do we ensure that everyone only gets one? People would fill their pockets if we would let them. I don't think it would be possible to make enough numbers in that kind of situation. Only giving out a specified number of numbers at a certain time would create a mob of people attacking the person with the numbers.

Also, if everyone gets a number, some of the people who do wait in line will be upset because instead of competing with 500 or so people for tarp space, they are now competing with everyone.

As you can see, this is not something we haven't put any thought into around here over the years, it's just that we don't have the answer...yet.

But, we are listening...

 

[bluegrasslaura]

Thanks for this post- it has some good ideas that we will consider. I don't like adding more wristbands to the equation, but maybe I'm not fully understanding that part. But hole punches, or sharpie marks might be the way to go.

The main problem with this is the Thursday night line...some people don't get there until after we are closed.

But still, keep the ideas coming!

Also, sorry if I come off as a little defensive this morning- it's only out of the frustration that the line seems to cause everyone:)

[LuAnna]

I have said some of this before...

The line needs to be a real line...not a loose formation that anyone can join in when they hear people yelling "Numbers"

And what is with the standing up to get your number? This certainly makes it possible for others to join in the line...or to jump in line on down the road for second and third attempts at a better number. I say.. chair in the line... a single file line and your butt in the chair. The tickets should be for the people who made the effort to get in the line and wait for ticket.

Since the tickets are randomly numbered they should be handed out as soon as the line is some given length... and thant time should  be no later than 1:30 in the morning. (Assuming the line does NOT start until midnight that is way long enough to wait.)

How to keep the line from from forming prior to midnight? I don't know.

I arrived too late Thursday to do the line, opted not to go near it on Friday because i took one look at it and it made me grumpy. Saturday night i did get in the line. I sat in my chair that was on the west side of the path, in single file and and close enough to the front that i didn't have to witness everyone standing up and letting other people cut in the line. yes, I was the one saying "Don't stand up Stay in your seats."

My number was okay and i am female,  OLD, and not pretty ..and there was a rather beautiful woman nearby who got a much higher number than mine, so i am not quite willing to believe that that makes any difference.

The way to change things is twofold I think. First, the festivarians need to  be agreeable to follow the guidelines. if the guidelines are clearly printed on the big board and then followed by both us as we form our line and then by the number hander outer, the line will eventually be more fair.  I wouldn't want the job of handing out the numbers but i would say find an elementary  teacher to do it. We are used to refusing to give kids what they want until they are in order. 

One person in one chair in one line and they can have one number

 
LuAnna