Telluride vs. Rockygrass

[ToddG]

Hey folks. How many of you that do TBF also do Rockygrass? I know the comparisons are a lot like apples to oranges, but are there things you like better about one or the other? Do you have a preference? And for those who do both every year, if you were forced to choose one, which would it be and why? I've never been to Rockygrass, but I did go to Planet Bluegrass for the Salmonfest in 2000 (which was awesome). Unfortunately we are unable to do both fests in a single year. Wondering if one year we should give Rockygrass a chance? I posted this in the Telluride forum, because I'm after the opinions of those that are loyal Telluride Festivarians.

 Listening to: Cake-Sad Songs and Waltzes

[TellurideTom]

I've been doing both fairly consistently now since I've moved back to Colorado in 2004 and I do like them both.
Rockygrass is smaller and more true to the Bluegrass and Americana genre.
I also like the fact that the river flows right next to the venue so you can cool off quickly.
 
If given the choice though, I'd have to pick Telluride mainly due to the fact that there are many more friends there, and the pre-fest scene is a huge part of the whole experience. Something that Rockygrass only has with the Academy, which is extra.
 

[Skubes]

The two are really completely different.  Telluride is the big party, both before and after the music starts, and gets the major, non-bluegrass specific headliners.  Rockygrass is much more subdued.  The acts are more traditional, the volume not turned up, and you will be told to sit down if you stand up to dance outside the designated areas.  Both are in incredibly beautiful settings, and you get the same benefits only a Planet event can provide.

Telluride will always be our "home" fest (even though Lyons is less than an hour from our house). But Rockygrass is nice because it's so easy.  It's significantly less planning, prepping, set up, tear down, and clean up.  The tarp line/run is an afterthought.  Going between the festival grounds and camp is simple.  The nighttime picking is unbelievable - probably the best it gets.  And you don't get the wild temperature swings like you do at Telluride.  From a line-up and overall fest experience, Telluride wins for me, but Rockygrass is special in its own right and should definitely be on your short list.

[ToddG]

Thanks for your thoughts.  Not to change the subject, but have any of you ever been to Winfield? Like Telluride the campground landrush happens the week before. But unlike the Planet festivals the main attraction of Winfield is not the main stage, but the campground stages organized by big group camps, and the all day-all night picking circles. I haven't been to Winfield since 1996, but most of my musician friends, and festival buddies go for the full 10-12 days.

[FaceOnMars]

you will be told to sit down if you stand up to dance outside the designated areas

Perhaps it's not so different ... since this happened again to me this year in Telluride during Peter Rowan.  I let it roll off me much more easily this year (less confrontational person, although last year's guy was totally off the charts), but a person nearby who was also asked to sit down (along with his wife and mother) was really agitated.  He took offense to having his elderly mother being told what to do by a twenty something year old girl on a tarp in the second row.

As the group was about to leave, I mentioned to the mother there's not a rule that requires her to sit and she doesn't have to leave; however, she wasn't very keen on sticking around after being confronted ... so the group retreated further back.  However, after about 5 minutes, the son came back and made a point of standing up nearby where I was still dancing and was emphatic about spending 15-20 minutes there on principle (while leaving his wife and mother out of it).

It could just be me, but my perception is there's been an increasing amount of "entitlement" by some (definitely not all) of those who invest a lot of time to be up front.   Unfortunately, all it takes is being in the wrong spot at the wrong time ... and I think those spots and time frames are growing larger in recent years.

[meanderingjeeper]

I do enjoy kgnu streams like koto so I can hear RG even tho I am not there!

http://radiorethink.com/listen/kgnu2/


 Listening to: Meadow Mountain

[Granny1Pibb]

I have to agree with FOM.  Lots more sense of entitlement this year at TBF, particularly regarding blocking folks' view with shade tents that can't be seen through.  I also agree with Tom and Skubes.  Telluride is home for sure.  Rockygrass is so easy for me I don't have to camp, but I do sometimes. 

[FaceOnMars]

Perhaps the sense of "entitlement" (and confrontations) could be traced to the findings of one of the following studies which I happened to come across while doing some research for work.

If a greater perceived value of the TBF experience is sometimes a product of the investment of one's time, then it might be fair to postulate that those who've invested a significant amount of time might go to greater lengths to preserve the accrued value associated with their "investment".

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/jennifer-aaker-happiness-time-connection

Jennifer Aaker: The Happiness-Time Connection
Why many effective consumer marketing campaigns focus on experiencing, rather than possessing, a product.

"It's Miller Time." "Live Richly." What do these vastly different marketing campaigns — one selling beer, the other financial services — have in common? They both focus on experiencing, rather than possessing, products. And according to a study by Stanford Graduate School of Business researchers, both are vastly more effective campaigns as a result.

"Because a person's experience with a product tends to foster feelings of personal connection with it, referring to time typically leads to more favorable attitudes—and to more purchases," says Jennifer Aaker, the General Atlantic Professor of Marketing at Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Aaker and her coauthor, Cassie Mogilner, a PHD candidate in marketing on whose thesis the paper is based, analyzed 300 ads in Money, New Yorker, Cosmopolitan, and Rolling Stone and found that nearly half (48 percent) included a reference to time. "Clearly, marketers feel at some intuitive level that this time is important," says Aaker. Despite this, very little research has been done on whether the focus on time actually changes consumers' purchasing decisions or overall satisfaction with what they buy. Mogilner and Aaker hypothesized that marketers themselves weren't aware of the value of stressing time. "What our work contributes is that they can trigger very different attitudes and behaviors just by mentioning time rather than money. We also show why this occurs," she says.

One explanation is that our relationship with time is much more personal than our relationship with money. "Ultimately, time is a more scarce resource — once it's gone, it's gone — and therefore more meaningful to us," says Mogilner. "How we spend our time says so much more about who we are than does how we spend our money."

Previous research had demonstrated that mentioning money makes people more self-sufficient, physically withdrawn, and less likely to help others. "On the other hand, when you refer to time, there's a big social component that integrates the products you use with the people in your life, which makes the product experience more meaningful and richer," says Mogilner.

In their first experiment the authors set up a lemonade stand — operated by two six-year olds, to make it appear authentic — for which they used three different signs. The first sign read "Spend a little time and enjoy C&D's lemonade"; the second one, "Spend a little money, and enjoy C&D's lemonade"; and the third, neutral one said simply, "Enjoy C&D's lemonade." Only one of the signs was displayed at a time. Customers were told they could pay between $1 and $3 for a cup of lemonade; the exact amount was up to them. After they made their purchase, they were surveyed to determine their attitude toward the lemonade.

The results were instructive: The sign stressing time attracted twice as many passersby — who were willing to pay almost twice as much — than when the money sign was displayed.

In a second experiment college students who owned iPods were either asked: "How much time have you spent on your iPod?" or "How much money have you spent on your iPod?" Students asked about time reported more favorable attitudes toward their iPods than those asked about money. "We were very surprised at how strong the differences were," says Aaker.

Our relationship with time is much more personal than our relationship with money.
But Mogilner and Aaker were interested in investigating even more complex ramifications of the time-money relationship. One theory is that references to money will always be negative because consumers are reminded of the cost of acquiring a product rather than the pleasure of consuming it. To explore this possibility, Aaker and Mogilner surveyed attendees at an outdoor music concert in San Francisco. Although the concert itself was free, people had to wait in line for long periods of time to get decent seats. Aaker and Mogilner asked random individuals: "How much time will you have spent to see the concert today?" or "How much money will you have spent to see the concert today?" Even in cases where the real cost of the product was time rather than money, asking specifically about time increased participants' favorable attitudes toward the concert.

Even more strikingly, people who stood in line longer — who actually incurred a higher cost in terms of time spent — rated their satisfaction with the concert higher. "Even though waiting is presumably a bad thing, it somehow made people concentrate on the overall experience," says Aaker.

The exception to all this: When marketing products that consumers buy for prestige value, stressing money spent seems to be more effective. Designer jeans, expensive jewelry, and high-status cars all fall into this category. "With such 'prestige' purchases, consumers feel that possessing the products reflect important aspects of themselves, and get more satisfaction from merely owning the product rather than spending time with it," says Mogilner.

Mogilner embarked on this research because she was "passionate" about finding out what makes consumers happy, and how the products in their lives can contribute to their happiness. "We were largely interested in helping consumers make better buying decisions," says Mogilner.

Still, there were takeaways for businesses, too. From marketers' points of view, the study should be compelling because today they have less control over how their products are perceived by consumers. That control is shifting to the consumers themselves. "One study showed that user-generated ads were nine times more effective than marketer-generated ads," says Aaker. "Being aware of what brings meaning to the lives of potential customers of a product will help businesses with their marketing efforts."

Mogilner, who has accepted a faculty job at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania, will be continuing her work on how companies can build innovative brands by focusing on improving the lives of consumers. Especially interested in the commercial uses of such resources as viral videos, social networks, and YouTube, Mogilner feels there is much that businesses don't understand about the power of these emerging technologies. "Marketers have a lot to learn about how they can positively influence the ways that their products improve the lives and happiness of their customers," she says.

[landshark]

Hey folks. How many of you that do TBF also do Rockygrass? I know the comparisons are a lot like apples to oranges, but are there things you like better about one or the other? Do you have a preference? And for those who do both every year, if you were forced to choose one, which would it be and why? I've never been to Rockygrass, but I did go to Planet Bluegrass for the Salmonfest in 2000 (which was awesome). Unfortunately we are unable to do both fests in a single year. Wondering if one year we should give Rockygrass a chance? I posted this in the Telluride forum, because I'm after the opinions of those that are loyal Telluride Festivarians.

   Family, intimate, not as much party and everyone sits for sets. A little more reserved. The natural surroundings are beautiful, the river great fun, slow shallow and tubin allowed most summers.

[landshark]

Perhaps the sense of "entitlement" (and confrontations) could be traced to the findings of one of the following studies which I happened to come across while doing some research for work.

If a greater perceived value of the TBF experience is sometimes a product of the investment of one's time, then it might be fair to postulate that those who've invested a significant amount of time might go to greater lengths to preserve the accrued value associated with their "investment".

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/jennifer-aaker-happiness-time-connection

Jennifer Aaker: The Happiness-Time Connection
Why many effective consumer marketing campaigns focus on experiencing, rather than possessing, a product.

"It's Miller Time." "Live Richly." What do these vastly different marketing campaigns — one selling beer, the other financial services — have in common? They both focus on experiencing, rather than possessing, products. And according to a study by Stanford Graduate School of Business researchers, both are vastly more effective campaigns as a result.

"Because a person's experience with a product tends to foster feelings of personal connection with it, referring to time typically leads to more favorable attitudes—and to more purchases," says Jennifer Aaker, the General Atlantic Professor of Marketing at Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Aaker and her coauthor, Cassie Mogilner, a PHD candidate in marketing on whose thesis the paper is based, analyzed 300 ads in Money, New Yorker, Cosmopolitan, and Rolling Stone and found that nearly half (48 percent) included a reference to time. "Clearly, marketers feel at some intuitive level that this time is important," says Aaker. Despite this, very little research has been done on whether the focus on time actually changes consumers' purchasing decisions or overall satisfaction with what they buy. Mogilner and Aaker hypothesized that marketers themselves weren't aware of the value of stressing time. "What our work contributes is that they can trigger very different attitudes and behaviors just by mentioning time rather than money. We also show why this occurs," she says.

One explanation is that our relationship with time is much more personal than our relationship with money. "Ultimately, time is a more scarce resource — once it's gone, it's gone — and therefore more meaningful to us," says Mogilner. "How we spend our time says so much more about who we are than does how we spend our money."

Previous research had demonstrated that mentioning money makes people more self-sufficient, physically withdrawn, and less likely to help others. "On the other hand, when you refer to time, there's a big social component that integrates the products you use with the people in your life, which makes the product experience more meaningful and richer," says Mogilner.

In their first experiment the authors set up a lemonade stand — operated by two six-year olds, to make it appear authentic — for which they used three different signs. The first sign read "Spend a little time and enjoy C&D's lemonade"; the second one, "Spend a little money, and enjoy C&D's lemonade"; and the third, neutral one said simply, "Enjoy C&D's lemonade." Only one of the signs was displayed at a time. Customers were told they could pay between $1 and $3 for a cup of lemonade; the exact amount was up to them. After they made their purchase, they were surveyed to determine their attitude toward the lemonade.

The results were instructive: The sign stressing time attracted twice as many passersby — who were willing to pay almost twice as much — than when the money sign was displayed.

In a second experiment college students who owned iPods were either asked: "How much time have you spent on your iPod?" or "How much money have you spent on your iPod?" Students asked about time reported more favorable attitudes toward their iPods than those asked about money. "We were very surprised at how strong the differences were," says Aaker.

Our relationship with time is much more personal than our relationship with money.
But Mogilner and Aaker were interested in investigating even more complex ramifications of the time-money relationship. One theory is that references to money will always be negative because consumers are reminded of the cost of acquiring a product rather than the pleasure of consuming it. To explore this possibility, Aaker and Mogilner surveyed attendees at an outdoor music concert in San Francisco. Although the concert itself was free, people had to wait in line for long periods of time to get decent seats. Aaker and Mogilner asked random individuals: "How much time will you have spent to see the concert today?" or "How much money will you have spent to see the concert today?" Even in cases where the real cost of the product was time rather than money, asking specifically about time increased participants' favorable attitudes toward the concert.

Even more strikingly, people who stood in line longer — who actually incurred a higher cost in terms of time spent — rated their satisfaction with the concert higher. "Even though waiting is presumably a bad thing, it somehow made people concentrate on the overall experience," says Aaker.

The exception to all this: When marketing products that consumers buy for prestige value, stressing money spent seems to be more effective. Designer jeans, expensive jewelry, and high-status cars all fall into this category. "With such 'prestige' purchases, consumers feel that possessing the products reflect important aspects of themselves, and get more satisfaction from merely owning the product rather than spending time with it," says Mogilner.

Mogilner embarked on this research because she was "passionate" about finding out what makes consumers happy, and how the products in their lives can contribute to their happiness. "We were largely interested in helping consumers make better buying decisions," says Mogilner.

Still, there were takeaways for businesses, too. From marketers' points of view, the study should be compelling because today they have less control over how their products are perceived by consumers. That control is shifting to the consumers themselves. "One study showed that user-generated ads were nine times more effective than marketer-generated ads," says Aaker. "Being aware of what brings meaning to the lives of potential customers of a product will help businesses with their marketing efforts."

Mogilner, who has accepted a faculty job at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania, will be continuing her work on how companies can build innovative brands by focusing on improving the lives of consumers. Especially interested in the commercial uses of such resources as viral videos, social networks, and YouTube, Mogilner feels there is much that businesses don't understand about the power of these emerging technologies. "Marketers have a lot to learn about how they can positively influence the ways that their products improve the lives and happiness of their customers," she says.

  FOM!

I slept in a puddle during a rain storm to get that tarp positioned just right. Yeah I OWN THIS! Suffer jet city

[FaceOnMars]

Good to see you're still paying attention around these parts LS!   

Did you get to Rockgrass this year?  Very tempted to make it out for the SCI festival next weekend in Lyons, but kind of spent from seeing Phish a week ago in Commerce City.

[landshark]

Good to see you're still paying attention around these parts LS!   

Did you get to Rockgrass this year?  Very tempted to make it out for the SCI festival next weekend in Lyons, but kind of spent from seeing Phish a week ago in Commerce City.

  Love to poke you for your long posts Still paying attention but slowing down some. Enjoy Fest and the ranch and all that comes with it but hard for me to stand for long periods right now. Having that fixed soon however so I may be back but for now just laying low and no not going to SCI.

You should put your real photo up FOM your way better looking then Jerry Garcia. Hugs buddy and it was really great to meet you FOM.

 Listening to: Air fiter

[FaceOnMars]

Good to see you're still paying attention around these parts LS!   

Did you get to Rockgrass this year?  Very tempted to make it out for the SCI festival next weekend in Lyons, but kind of spent from seeing Phish a week ago in Commerce City.

  Love to poke you for your long posts Still paying attention but slowing down some. Enjoy Fest and the ranch and all that comes with it but hard for me to stand for long periods right now. Having that fixed soon however so I may be back but for now just laying low and no not going to SCI.

You should put your real photo up FOM your way better looking then Jerry Garcia. Hugs buddy and it was really great to meet you FOM.

Yeah, but I didn't write all of those words this time.   Good to hear you're going in for some repairs, I'm sure you'll be dancing in no time!   It was really great to meet you as well LS and thank you for the kind words, you're not so bad yourself

[landshark]

Good to see you're still paying attention around these parts LS!   

Did you get to Rockgrass this year?  Very tempted to make it out for the SCI festival next weekend in Lyons, but kind of spent from seeing Phish a week ago in Commerce City.

  Love to poke you for your long posts Still paying attention but slowing down some. Enjoy Fest and the ranch and all that comes with it but hard for me to stand for long periods right now. Having that fixed soon however so I may be back but for now just laying low and no not going to SCI.

You should put your real photo up FOM your way better looking then Jerry Garcia. Hugs buddy and it was really great to meet you FOM.

Yeah, but I didn't write all of those words this time.   Good to hear you're going in for some repairs, I'm sure you'll be dancing in no time!   It was really great to meet you as well LS and thank you for the kind words, you're not so bad yourself

I have met THE BEST folks here and forever burned in my brain...greatful to have found all of you in my lifetime. Unlocked me for sure. Hugs and till next time FOM!