VIP Pass

[FaceOnMars]

I think I am creative enough to figure something out and as far as a division of class, that is silly. I think that people are willing from all divisions of life to pay the most for what matters most to them. Be it a Fly Rod, a Mandolin or a seat at a musical event.

I know a few that eat peanut butter and jelly so they can climb a faraway mountain. We all have a budget and we all have to manage. Choice is a good thing and American

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were seeking to "divide us" landshark.  Having had cervical spine surgery this past Tuesday, I see where you're coming from ... attending festivals becomes a bit more challenging as we progress in years & our bodies don't quite cooperate quite as much.  It would be nice to somehow get a prime spot without having to constantly physically jockey for space, but have kinda just resigned myself to make due & things will pan out ... sometimes well, sometimes not so much.

Perhaps I get a bit stuck on a concert experience being a communal event ... whereas affording "preferred access" based upon ticket pricing is a slippery slope which chips away at the communal bonds in favor of financial considerations.  There are currently large promotional companies which focus exclusively upon the "upsell market" & I believe once the door is opened in Telluride, it would invariably keep moving in such a direction ... even with all the best of intentions.  I just think there's a certain entropy which once set in motion will continue ... and aside from the immediate effect of ticket prices, we wouldn't realize until it's too late (kind of like a frog boiling in water).

[landshark]

I think I am creative enough to figure something out and as far as a division of class, that is silly. I think that people are willing from all divisions of life to pay the most for what matters most to them. Be it a Fly Rod, a Mandolin or a seat at a musical event.

I know a few that eat peanut butter and jelly so they can climb a faraway mountain. We all have a budget and we all have to manage. Choice is a good thing and American

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were seeking to "divide us" landshark.  Having had cervical spine surgery this past Tuesday, I see where you're coming from ... attending festivals becomes a bit more challenging as we progress in years & our bodies don't quite cooperate quite as much.  It would be nice to somehow get a prime spot without having to constantly physically jockey for space, but have kinda just resigned myself to make due & things will pan out ... sometimes well, sometimes not so much.

Perhaps I get a bit stuck on a concert experience being a communal event ... whereas affording "preferred access" based upon ticket pricing is a slippery slope which chips away at the communal bonds in favor of financial considerations.  There are currently large promotional companies which focus exclusively upon the "upsell market" & I believe once the door is opened in Telluride, it would invariably keep moving in such a direction ... even with all the best of intentions.  I just think there's a certain entropy which once set in motion will continue ... and aside from the immediate effect of ticket prices, we wouldn't realize until it's too late (kind of like a frog boiling in water).

Wow that sounds pretty serious. I hope your are making a speedy recovery friend. I always find our different views so interesting. They are the same and yet not so much. Well I think as the crowd shifts so will the fest. PBG has always been #1 when it comes to accomidating and listening to the needs of the festivarians. I have total faith that they will recognize the needs and be proactive in some way. I adore what they do and wish I was Ferg for a day just to really understand all the different aspects and efforts it takes to get this fest off the ground.

I wish you well my friend and yes the times are changing but the spirit remains the same. Love and light, acceptance and grace, kinship and contributions and best off all the best music on the entire planet set to the wind, the heat and the rain.

[BillyBeru]

 Well I think as the crowd shifts so will the fest. PBG has always been #1 when it comes to accomidating and listening to the needs of the festivarians.

(I know better but what the heck...)

Are you implying that the overall demos of the festival are getting older, more affluent, and therefore Planet Bluegrass will cater to this changing demo and offer higher end packages, etc?

I'm going the other direction, particularly with how social media has changed things, and say that, if anything, the fest has gone younger in the last 5 years.

But alas, Dustin and Brian know that answer.

[landshark]

 Well I think as the crowd shifts so will the fest. PBG has always been #1 when it comes to accomidating and listening to the needs of the festivarians.

(I know better but what the heck...)

Are you implying that the overall demos of the festival are getting older, more affluent, and therefore Planet Bluegrass will cater to this changing demo and offer higher end packages, etc?

I'm going the other direction, particularly with how social media has changed things, and say that, if anything, the fest has gone younger in the last 5 years.

But alas, Dustin and Brian know that answer.

Hi Billy. yes I am implying that some of us even still at the age of 50 and 60 and beyond plan on attendance, after all tradition runs deep.... so it is in fact something to consider. Not wanting a restructure just an option. Most older folks are on a budget, no work will do that and so here again a class separation as some may interpret is more telling of your views then rank on seating. When I was younger and stood all 4 nights front and center I could care less who was seated in front of me in the poser pit. So just planning and looking ahead. Make no fuss its just lil ol me trying to shake things out,,,,cowboy.

[BillyBeru]

My last post on this. What I'm saying is this:

2005 Attendees:
20% <24
25% 25-34
20% 35-44
35% >45

over time shift to: (#'s are illustrative but overall my belief that the average age has gotten younger)

2015 attendees
25% <24
30% 25-34
20% 35-44
25% >45

Assumes 11k attendees in both years.

[landshark]

My last post on this. What I'm saying is this:

2005 Attendees:
20% <24
25% 25-34
20% 35-44
35% >45

over time shift to: (#'s are illustrative but overall my belief that the average age has gotten younger)

2015 attendees
25% <24
30% 25-34
20% 35-44
25% >45

Assumes 11k attendees in both years.

Thank you BillyB! I understood and now we know the stats on dat however I see this as a trend, a change, a game changer if you can retain as long as possible. I am aware that fresh new young blood is needed to make fest thrive and love the mix and family feel all around me at this fest so all inclusive is a stream of infinity..

[Australian fan]

This has been a great discussion, thank you so much for initiating it. I think the issue might be the idea of "VIP pass" as opposed to something like a "comfort pass". I loved the egalitarianism of TBGF ( in fact, I keep mooning over how much I miss it as I make my way to work in the cold dark weather here).

As people get older our needs change but hopefully not our passion. I used to attend a great little festival here that had a special stand for ageing and infirm rockers. There was a stand to the side but with a good line of sight of the stage. It had seats, shade, a bathroom and a ramp. Veterans of the festival were invited to sit there and could invite one guest to join them at a time. It was a nice place to hang out before re- entering the main stage area and the sound was excellent.

Not the answer for everyone I know but it was a very inclusive way of ensuring everyone got to stay connected to the sound even if the body was shaky

[Telluridin]

If I may be so bold,  I believe landshark just meant that PB does a great job of "feeling" what their audience is and adjusting the festival appropriately, regardless of the vip issue.

With that said, it seems like the main issue is mobility for us aging folks (all of us).  The poser pit is the furthest point from the entrance and is unprotected.  Possibly a Kelty area in the back with a small video screen of the stage?  Reserved for the mobility impaired, that is.  Shorter walk, closer to first aid, food and water, and shade.  Just a thought.  Having been recently temporarily mobility impaired, I have a new appreciation for how difficult just getting around can be for some people.

[Hot Sugar]

To be really honest with you camping at Run-A-Muck is the VIP pass!

As usual, the Pirate nailed it. Missed you this year, brother!

[landshark]

I have been looking at campers. Holy cow this could be my seat up frontish, toilet, shower and Town Park , condo all in one. Me thinks we should except the things we can do and maneuver around the things we can not do.

So what is camper situation besides size, is there anything important I should consider?


I am healthy and willin and I still cut the grooves for some mean dance moves. Im in for infinity.

GROUP HUGS!

[Telluridin]

Camper spots are hard to come by.  There are a few for Town Park, but not many.  You can have a bigger RV at Lawson, and Mary E allows campers as well.  I'm pretty sure thats it, unless you know someone in town who will let you park at their house, off the street.

[FaceOnMars]

I think I am creative enough to figure something out and as far as a division of class, that is silly. I think that people are willing from all divisions of life to pay the most for what matters most to them. Be it a Fly Rod, a Mandolin or a seat at a musical event.

I know a few that eat peanut butter and jelly so they can climb a faraway mountain. We all have a budget and we all have to manage. Choice is a good thing and American

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were seeking to "divide us" landshark.  Having had cervical spine surgery this past Tuesday, I see where you're coming from ... attending festivals becomes a bit more challenging as we progress in years & our bodies don't quite cooperate quite as much.  It would be nice to somehow get a prime spot without having to constantly physically jockey for space, but have kinda just resigned myself to make due & things will pan out ... sometimes well, sometimes not so much.

Perhaps I get a bit stuck on a concert experience being a communal event ... whereas affording "preferred access" based upon ticket pricing is a slippery slope which chips away at the communal bonds in favor of financial considerations.  There are currently large promotional companies which focus exclusively upon the "upsell market" & I believe once the door is opened in Telluride, it would invariably keep moving in such a direction ... even with all the best of intentions.  I just think there's a certain entropy which once set in motion will continue ... and aside from the immediate effect of ticket prices, we wouldn't realize until it's too late (kind of like a frog boiling in water).

Wow that sounds pretty serious. I hope your are making a speedy recovery friend. I always find our different views so interesting. They are the same and yet not so much. Well I think as the crowd shifts so will the fest. PBG has always been #1 when it comes to accomidating and listening to the needs of the festivarians. I have total faith that they will recognize the needs and be proactive in some way. I adore what they do and wish I was Ferg for a day just to really understand all the different aspects and efforts it takes to get this fest off the ground.

I wish you well my friend and yes the times are changing but the spirit remains the same. Love and light, acceptance and grace, kinship and contributions and best off all the best music on the entire planet set to the wind, the heat and the rain.

Thank you ls!  Yeah, it's definitely a serious situation ... had a blown disc (c6/c7) which compressed a nerve root leading out to my right tricep, pec, deltoids ... all of which were weaked severely & had to do something or risk loosing use of those muscles permanently.  So, opted for an artificial disc replacement.   Short term recovery has been very easy so far, but I guess we'll see how this pans out in the long run.

I also find your views interesting and like your perspective!  I think you're on to something re: retention of the current aging population demographic.   Perhaps Australian Fan is on to something re: a "special section" of sorts; be it ADA or something short of a literal interpretation of ADA section.  Red Rocks typically has the front row reserved for ADA (along with the very back).  However, like most issues re: personal space, guidelines can often be stretched until there's a "tragedy of the commons"; and ultimately PB might need to step in to officiate ... which would be yet another layer of operational admin they'd need to take on.  Nonetheless, it might be worth it from a marketing point of view in terms of maintaining a strong percentage of veterans which seem to carry on many traditions (which PB seems to currently embrace as a component of their existing general marketing posture).

[landshark]

Thank you ls!  Yeah, it's definitely a serious situation ... had a blown disc (c6/c7) which compressed a nerve root leading out to my right tricep, pec, deltoids ... all of which were weaked severely & had to do something or risk loosing use of those muscles permanently.  So, opted for an artificial disc replacement.   Short term recovery has been very easy so far, but I guess we'll see how this pans out in the long run.

I also find your views interesting and like your perspective!  I think you're on to something re: retention of the current aging population demographic.   Perhaps Australian Fan is on to something re: a "special section" of sorts; be it ADA or something short of a literal interpretation of ADA section.  Red Rocks typically has the front row reserved for ADA (along with the very back).  However, like most issues re: personal space, guidelines can often be stretched until there's a "tragedy of the commons"; and ultimately PB might need to step in to officiate ... which would be yet another layer of operational admin they'd need to take on.  Nonetheless, it might be worth it from a marketing point of view in terms of maintaining a strong percentage of veterans which seem to carry on many traditions (which PB seems to currently embrace as a component of their existing general marketing posture).

I am so glad you are on the road to recovery. When the mind says yes and the body says no it is a hard one to come to terms with, But I have always been pro active and I know that PBG is as well.
I had an interesting discussion last night with someone who went to Rockygrass. He said the entire crowd was seated the entire time and they were monitored to stay seated. Diffused the good vibes and energy. I was quick to explain that he may have been part of a social experiment. Perhaps PBG wanted to try a crowd shift to seated and thus accommodate folks who need to sit....

I know for a fact you cannot please all the people all of the time, I have worked with the public before. So I say good job PBG at being proactive and I have always noticed that the effort to accommodate us is always at the top of your consideration.

So FOM I will see you next year and what ever we as a Fest family can do to make sure we stick together and hang tough, we will do, cause its part of who we are now.

Love and light and many hugs friend. See you in June!

[FaceOnMars]

Thank you ls!  Yeah, it's definitely a serious situation ... had a blown disc (c6/c7) which compressed a nerve root leading out to my right tricep, pec, deltoids ... all of which were weaked severely & had to do something or risk loosing use of those muscles permanently.  So, opted for an artificial disc replacement.   Short term recovery has been very easy so far, but I guess we'll see how this pans out in the long run.

I also find your views interesting and like your perspective!  I think you're on to something re: retention of the current aging population demographic.   Perhaps Australian Fan is on to something re: a "special section" of sorts; be it ADA or something short of a literal interpretation of ADA section.  Red Rocks typically has the front row reserved for ADA (along with the very back).  However, like most issues re: personal space, guidelines can often be stretched until there's a "tragedy of the commons"; and ultimately PB might need to step in to officiate ... which would be yet another layer of operational admin they'd need to take on.  Nonetheless, it might be worth it from a marketing point of view in terms of maintaining a strong percentage of veterans which seem to carry on many traditions (which PB seems to currently embrace as a component of their existing general marketing posture).

I am so glad you are on the road to recovery. When the mind says yes and the body says no it is a hard one to come to terms with, But I have always been pro active and I know that PBG is as well.
I had an interesting discussion last night with someone who went to Rockygrass. He said the entire crowd was seated the entire time and they were monitored to stay seated. Diffused the good vibes and energy. I was quick to explain that he may have been part of a social experiment. Perhaps PBG wanted to try a crowd shift to seated and thus accommodate folks who need to sit....

I know for a fact you cannot please all the people all of the time, I have worked with the public before. So I say good job PBG at being proactive and I have always noticed that the effort to accommodate us is always at the top of your consideration.

So FOM I will see you next year and what ever we as a Fest family can do to make sure we stick together and hang tough, we will do, cause its part of who we are now.

Love and light and many hugs friend. See you in June!

Thank you again for your kind thoughts landshark ... and right back at ya! 

Just remember:  "If you can walk, you can surely dance".   

Yes, I agree with you 100% that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but it's nice to try and increase the percentage if possible.  Interesting that the whole seated/standing thing never became a "controversy" in Telluride, yet is apparently a hot button issue at Rockygrass ... it really is fascinating when you break it all down to it's elements ... especially since there probably isn't fixed seating.  Last encounter I had with such an arrangement was at the Bob Weir, Chris Robinson, Jackie Greene show at Chataqua in Boulder.  Had an awesome seat directly behind the SBD, but after the announcment was made that it was to be a "seated only" show, being the freak that I am, I opted to drift to the back in order to dance vs. better sound & sightlines.  There were maybe only a few dozen of us who were exiled to the back to dance, and I kinda wondered what the percentage would've been had the official mandate not been issued? ... since it was a more subdued acoustic show, but I still suspect there would've been a lot more people who would've preferred to stand/dance. 

[landshark]

Thank you ls!  Yeah, it's definitely a serious situation ... had a blown disc (c6/c7) which compressed a nerve root leading out to my right tricep, pec, deltoids ... all of which were weaked severely & had to do something or risk loosing use of those muscles permanently.  So, opted for an artificial disc replacement.   Short term recovery has been very easy so far, but I guess we'll see how this pans out in the long run.

I also find your views interesting and like your perspective!  I think you're on to something re: retention of the current aging population demographic.   Perhaps Australian Fan is on to something re: a "special section" of sorts; be it ADA or something short of a literal interpretation of ADA section.  Red Rocks typically has the front row reserved for ADA (along with the very back).  However, like most issues re: personal space, guidelines can often be stretched until there's a "tragedy of the commons"; and ultimately PB might need to step in to officiate ... which would be yet another layer of operational admin they'd need to take on.  Nonetheless, it might be worth it from a marketing point of view in terms of maintaining a strong percentage of veterans which seem to carry on many traditions (which PB seems to currently embrace as a component of their existing general marketing posture).

I am so glad you are on the road to recovery. When the mind says yes and the body says no it is a hard one to come to terms with, But I have always been pro active and I know that PBG is as well.
I had an interesting discussion last night with someone who went to Rockygrass. He said the entire crowd was seated the entire time and they were monitored to stay seated. Diffused the good vibes and energy. I was quick to explain that he may have been part of a social experiment. Perhaps PBG wanted to try a crowd shift to seated and thus accommodate folks who need to sit....

I know for a fact you cannot please all the people all of the time, I have worked with the public before. So I say good job PBG at being proactive and I have always noticed that the effort to accommodate us is always at the top of your consideration.

So FOM I will see you next year and what ever we as a Fest family can do to make sure we stick together and hang tough, we will do, cause its part of who we are now.

Love and light and many hugs friend. See you in June!

Thank you again for your kind thoughts landshark ... and right back at ya! 

Just remember:  "If you can walk, you can surely dance".   

Yes, I agree with you 100% that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but it's nice to try and increase the percentage if possible.  Interesting that the whole seated/standing thing never became a "controversy" in Telluride, yet is apparently a hot button issue at Rockygrass ... it really is fascinating when you break it all down to it's elements ... especially since there probably isn't fixed seating.  Last encounter I had with such an arrangement was at the Bob Weir, Chris Robinson, Jackie Greene show at Chataqua in Boulder.  Had an awesome seat directly behind the SBD, but after the announcment was made that it was to be a "seated only" show, being the freak that I am, I opted to drift to the back in order to dance vs. better sound & sightlines.  There were maybe only a few dozen of us who were exiled to the back to dance, and I kinda wondered what the percentage would've been had the official mandate not been issued? ... since it was a more subdued acoustic show, but I still suspect there would've been a lot more people who would've preferred to stand/dance. 

I am with you on that ! I want the choice to dance! Often I will stand by the side so I can. Choice is a good thing and hope you are well