Some Thoughts

[BillyBeru]

As you said, to each their own, but I have to chime in and say I'm the exact opposite.  I am bored more by Nickle Creek and Punch Brothers than I am by The Dusters, whom I think you are selling short by implying that they are a regional only act.  They tour across the country and pack good sized venues pretty much everywhere they go. 

And as far as more people listening to Nickle Creek, Punch, DM3 and TBT, the only one of those bands that is remotely bluegrass is Punch, so I don't see how that excludes The Dusters from being the future of bluegrass music.  And Punch doesn't really relate very well, as they kind of have their own, non-bluegrass, vibe going on, even though they can undoubtedly rip up some bluegrass tunes when they feel like it.

In the end, though, as you said, it's all of little consequence.  There's never a shortage of good musicians at the festival, both new and old.

I don't think I implied the Dusters are a regional act. Just that they're not "up and coming." I know it's unscientific, but if you look at Facebook likes, all of the artists I mentioned have at least twice as many, and even Greensky has 50% more.  They just don't have much appeal outside of bluegrass circles, and they don't seem any more popular now than they did three years ago. It sounds counterintuitive, but if they're the future of the genre, they have to have some cross-genre appeal.  I would bet that's why TBF always features so many quasi-bluegrass acts...otherwise the demographics are just gonna get older and older and the crowd will literally just die off.

Maybe TBT, DM3, Nickel Creek, etc. aren't traditional bluegrass, but they all have obvious bluegrass influence, and isn't that how any genre evolves? I doubt you can find any genre of music where the listeners are so bent out of shape over tradition as bluegrass. Those non-traditional acts are the future of the genre because, like it or not, those are the artists younger observers think of when they hear about bluegrass.

 

[Hot Sugar]

I don't think I implied the Dusters are a regional act. Just that they're not "up and coming." I know it's unscientific, but if you look at Facebook likes, all of the artists I mentioned have at least twice as many, and even Greensky has 50% more.  They just don't have much appeal outside of bluegrass circles, and they don't seem any more popular now than they did three years ago. It sounds counterintuitive, but if they're the future of the genre, they have to have some cross-genre appeal.  I would bet that's why TBF always features so many quasi-bluegrass acts...otherwise the demographics are just gonna get older and older and the crowd will literally just die off.

Maybe TBT, DM3, Nickel Creek, etc. aren't traditional bluegrass, but they all have obvious bluegrass influence, and isn't that how any genre evolves? I doubt you can find any genre of music where the listeners are so bent out of shape over tradition as bluegrass. Those non-traditional acts are the future of the genre because, like it or not, those are the artists younger observers think of when they hear about bluegrass.

I think they've definitely gotten more popular in the past 3 years. When I saw them Halloween 2012, they sold out a 200 person venue. When I saw them in April in the same town, they sold out a 500 person venue. Members of the audience included String Cheese Fans, Hipsters, Dave Matthews fans, and, of course, the bluegrass fans. I ran into a friend I've known since kindergarten at a party recently and she had a Dusters sticker on her water bottle. She has little to no exposure to bluegrass. She had never heard of them but went to see them in Chicago and thought they were amazing. The Dusters' fan base extends beyond bluegrass fans.

The fact that the following thread was created should show something along those lines.
http://www.festivarian.com/index.php/topic,20271.0.html

When they started out, they were a traditional band. But when Jesse Cobb left, they went in a different direction and they've been finding favor with jam band fans every where. Excluding the House Band, I don't think there's a better group of pickers around. These boys know how to throw a party.

Of course, everyone has their own opinions. I'm not trying to say that they should be everyone's favorite band the way they are mine. Just that these guys are on the rise and deserve to play at the best festival, bluegrass or otherwise, in the country.

And that's all I'll say on the matter.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhuqwYigyI

[completejohn]

I watched a man with a new born baby. He had head sets on her but he was in front of the speakers and her little eyes were about to pop out of her head. My liver was shakein so I am sure she was feeling all kinds of vibrations. PLEASE PEOPLE, YOU ARE NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE ON THE PLANET! YOUR BABY IS! REMOVE YOURSELF AND STEP BACK! PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN! I wanted to grab that baby and run to the rear but was told to mind my own business. It was painful for me to watch.

The truth is that the kid was listening to the World Cup on ESPN radio.

[ShatteredArm]

 

Care to elaborate?

[ShatteredArm]

I think they've definitely gotten more popular in the past 3 years. When I saw them Halloween 2012, they sold out a 200 person venue. When I saw them in April in the same town, they sold out a 500 person venue. Members of the audience included String Cheese Fans, Hipsters, Dave Matthews fans, and, of course, the bluegrass fans. I ran into a friend I've known since kindergarten at a party recently and she had a Dusters sticker on her water bottle. She has little to no exposure to bluegrass. She had never heard of them but went to see them in Chicago and thought they were amazing. The Dusters' fan base extends beyond bluegrass fans.

The fact that the following thread was created should show something along those lines.
http://www.festivarian.com/index.php/topic,20271.0.html

When they started out, they were a traditional band. But when Jesse Cobb left, they went in a different direction and they've been finding favor with jam band fans every where. Excluding the House Band, I don't think there's a better group of pickers around. These boys know how to throw a party.

Of course, everyone has their own opinions. I'm not trying to say that they should be everyone's favorite band the way they are mine. Just that these guys are on the rise and deserve to play at the best festival, bluegrass or otherwise, in the country.

And that's all I'll say on the matter.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhuqwYigyI

Hey, I'm not saying they're not a good band, or that there's anything wrong with liking them more than any other band.  That's subjective; and that they can play can't be denied.  But if you say they're the "future of bluegrass" or "up and coming," well... the facts just don't support that.  Popularity does matter at that point.

There are objective indicators for whether or not something is a trend, and a message board topic on a bluegrass festival forum or whether they sold out a venue in a particular town are not very useful.  If they're "up and coming" one would expect interest in them to be rising, but it's not:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F03grq02

Compare that to Greensky Bluegrass, or The Devil Makes Three, who have both seen consistently increasing search interest over the past few years.  Trampled By Turtles and Punch Brothers have had more oscillations, but they're both decidedly more popular now than they were three years ago. There is also little apparent interest in the Dusters in any major city outside of Denver; the other bands have a noticeably more even distribution across major cities.

I'm not saying they don't deserve to play Telluride. They do, just not as often as you might like (I'd like to see Head For The Hills, Elephant Revival, Josh Ritter, Steve Earle, Darrell Scott, Trampled By Turtles, Neil Young, et al every year, but that's just not a reasonable expectation). There are very few artists who should be yearly, and I think Planet Bluegrass is doing a pretty good job selecting those.

[MrEdyoulis]

Interesting topic.  i think the BG/OT scene is unique in the outstanding support the old guard provides to the new gen.  I can't name all the instances of established artists taking time out to mentor and support new talent.  In many other music genres, the boundaries are much more strict and the access restricted.  It is extremely heartening to see world class talents like Bela, Jerry and Edgar play on up and coming musicians projects, specifically the work they did with Sarah Jarosz a few years back on Follow Me Down.

Whether the old guard should give up some time to the new is academic to me.  They've already proven their largesse and the new folks have plenty of time in their careers.  Let PB make the tough choices, they are more than capable.

[KYDeadhead]

I'm hoping PB never starts using Facebook likes or Google trends to determine acts to book, I'm sure Miley Cyrus has more than this year's entire lineup….. That said, I feel as a long time Stringdusters fan I do need to add a few things. Calling them a traditional bluegrass band could only be done by someone who's idea of a bluegrass festival is one headlined by Steve Winwood. Living here in the heart of traditional bluegrass I can definately state that they are considered by most to be a progressive, Newgrass band- one that is right in line with the Telluride format. In addition to the music, their work with American Rivers, and with Oskar Blues to benefit Lyons, and the way they conduct their festival has them definately in line with the PB/Festivarian mindset. Their festival ( The Festy Experience) which I have attended every year, shows a lot of PB influence, even surpassing PB in some ways ( a Kleen Kanteen cup is included in multi day ticket price and there are no plastic beer cups). Their fan base is probably a little younger than the Telluride average, about the same as Greensky I would guess. I feel that musically as well as culturally they are definately as worthy of any band for an annual appearance, but that is between PB and them. PB seems to have done a pretty fine job without my input over the years….Since Telluride is difficult for me to do every year logistically, it would be nice if they settle on a every other year or every third year pattern they could send me a message and let me know so I could coordinate my years . The other thing that I'm finding interesting about this thread is the idea that having the Dusters/ Greensky every year would have to cost us a Sam/Tim/ CT etc set.. It would seem to me that if any of those artists had taken Ray LA Who cares? spot it would have been a better fest for all (Ray included, judging by his comments)

[bluegrassfan1]

My 2 cents... the Stringdusters, and Greensky would be just fine each year!  Suggestion for next year Joe Mullins & Junior Sisk!!

[mountainjam]

Posted by: KYDeadhead: I'm hoping PB never starts using Facebook likes or Google trends to determine acts to book (+1)

I've learned no matter how much you love (or dislike) a certain band that music is personal and subjective and even though it can be fun, it's not really worthwhile trying to convince someone why a certain band is great - or not so great. For me I absolutely love both Greensky and the Dusters. I'll travel to see them both and hope they play the festival each year. On the other hand I've never been able to enjoy anything Chris Thile has done and I'll leave to shower or hike during any of his sets including Nickel Creek and Punch Brothers. By the sounds of it ShatteredArm feels the exact opposite. So...I guess the point is to each their own. Overall PB does a pretty great job giving us a wonderful and diverse lineup each year. 

P.S. Please bring the Dusters back next year! 

[420Sugaree]

They're Cowboys and I love 'em!

[nfire]

As you said, to each their own, but I have to chime in and say I'm the exact opposite.  I am bored more by Nickle Creek and Punch Brothers than I am by The Dusters, whom I think you are selling short by implying that they are a regional only act.  They tour across the country and pack good sized venues pretty much everywhere they go. 

And as far as more people listening to Nickle Creek, Punch, DM3 and TBT, the only one of those bands that is remotely bluegrass is Punch, so I don't see how that excludes The Dusters from being the future of bluegrass music.  And Punch doesn't really relate very well, as they kind of have their own, non-bluegrass, vibe going on, even though they can undoubtedly rip up some bluegrass tunes when they feel like it.

In the end, though, as you said, it's all of little consequence.  There's never a shortage of good musicians at the festival, both new and old.

I don't think I implied the Dusters are a regional act. Just that they're not "up and coming." I know it's unscientific, but if you look at Facebook likes, all of the artists I mentioned have at least twice as many, and even Greensky has 50% more.  They just don't have much appeal outside of bluegrass circles, and they don't seem any more popular now than they did three years ago. It sounds counterintuitive, but if they're the future of the genre, they have to have some cross-genre appeal.  I would bet that's why TBF always features so many quasi-bluegrass acts...otherwise the demographics are just gonna get older and older and the crowd will literally just die off.

Maybe TBT, DM3, Nickel Creek, etc. aren't traditional bluegrass, but they all have obvious bluegrass influence, and isn't that how any genre evolves? I doubt you can find any genre of music where the listeners are so bent out of shape over tradition as bluegrass. Those non-traditional acts are the future of the genre because, like it or not, those are the artists younger observers think of when they hear about bluegrass.

very well said, and i agree.  i dont think TBT/DM3/NC are any more different from Sam Bush and Bela than Sam and Bela were from Bill Monroe and Flat & Scruggs when they started.

those groups work magic to keep the genre fresh.  if you don't want to include them in the genre, too bad!  i'm sure plenty didn't want 'newgrass revival' or 'hot rize' in the genre either.

[completejohn]

I think it's interesting how people view different artists.  Some of my favorites are your least faves, and so on.  And that's what makes TBF so great.  I trust that PB will find some new acts for me, get some real surprises booked and have the veteran TBF artists ready to show us why we love them.  But I also expect to NOT enjoy EVERYTHING.  And that, folks, lets us sneak in a shower or a Town Park meal!

It would be fun to play a "fantasy festival" game, where we would each get to book an entire weekend, based on a maximum spending level and a per-artist list of costs.  It could be complicated by artists only being available certain days, and by making each Fantasy promoter ensure x number of on-stage collaborations.

Then we would really appreciate how tough booking the fest is.

[Matt]

As you said, to each their own, but I have to chime in and say I'm the exact opposite.  I am bored more by Nickle Creek and Punch Brothers than I am by The Dusters, whom I think you are selling short by implying that they are a regional only act.  They tour across the country and pack good sized venues pretty much everywhere they go. 

And as far as more people listening to Nickle Creek, Punch, DM3 and TBT, the only one of those bands that is remotely bluegrass is Punch, so I don't see how that excludes The Dusters from being the future of bluegrass music.  And Punch doesn't really relate very well, as they kind of have their own, non-bluegrass, vibe going on, even though they can undoubtedly rip up some bluegrass tunes when they feel like it.

In the end, though, as you said, it's all of little consequence.  There's never a shortage of good musicians at the festival, both new and old.

Maybe TBT, DM3, Nickel Creek, etc. aren't traditional bluegrass, but they all have obvious bluegrass influence, and isn't that how any genre evolves? I doubt you can find any genre of music where the listeners are so bent out of shape over tradition as bluegrass. Those non-traditional acts are the future of the genre because, like it or not, those are the artists younger observers think of when they hear about bluegrass.

very well said, and i agree.  i dont think TBT/DM3/NC are any more different from Sam Bush and Bela than Sam and Bela were from Bill Monroe and Flat & Scruggs when they started.

those groups work magic to keep the genre fresh.  if you don't want to include them in the genre, too bad!  i'm sure plenty didn't want 'newgrass revival' or 'hot rize' in the genre either.

I'll agree with you about NC and TBT, but DM3 comes from a different musical place for me.  More of a rootsy blues kinda thing.  I still don't really consider any of them bluegrass or even newgrass.  NC is Folk to me, TBT are harder to classify, but their rhythms are different enough that I resist calling them bluegrass.

I'm definitely not a bluegrass traditionalist, but I also don't feel like every band with a fiddle, banjo or mandolin should automatically be put into the bluegrass genre, which is something that happens a lot.  I used to play in a band that was really not bluegrassy at all, but people insisted on calling us bluegrass when they tried to give us a label, because we had a fiddle and banjo player.  I know my opinion doesn't really match popular opinion on the subject; and maybe I'm a bit biased because I got sick of our indie/alt-country band being called bluegrass, but it's just how I see things.

Don't get me wrong, I love how the genre has evolved from Bill Monroe to Hartford to Newgrass to Leftover Salmon to YMSB to the Dusters etc...  I love seeing young musicians who grew up playing bluegrass branching out and using their bluegrass roots to come up with exciting and different sounds, i.e. Sarah Jarosz, Chris Thile, Brittney Haas, etc.  You're absolutely right, this is how a genre keeps evolving.

The music is all good whether it's traditional bluegrass, newgrass, poly-ethnic cajun slamgrass, Colorado Symphonic-grass, folk, rock, alt-country, western swing or whatever.  The Planet always brings in good artists.