Scalpers for tbf tickets SUCK

[skyrunner]

No matter how you look at it. We true festivarians do NOT sell our tickets above face. Period, point blank, no arguing about it. 

[farmerJohn421]

Let me pour a drop more kerosene on this fire:
1) I don't like scalping, but if a few people need to do it to finance their trip to TBF for music, and they obtained their tickets the same way we all did, rather than some back room payoff to some office worker at Planet Bluegrass (like what happens at Pepsi Center, Sports Authority Field, etc.), its not the end of the world.

2) Scalping laws and enforcement are very lax in Colorado compared to other states, and that's not PB's fault.  To ask them to incur extra cost or effort to try and marginally reduce the schemes of a small number of scalpers, or to hassle music lovers with special ID arrangements is asking too much.  If you live  in Colorado, call your state legislators and let them know you want them to change the law.

3) It's fun to vent on the forum, but some are starting to sound like the PC Police.  When I  had to sell my tickets (AT COST) at the last minute for 2013 because of a serious personal matter, I received a number of PMs from someone in this thread berating me about how he didn't think my way of doing it was not "the right way". So I guess its not just selling for cost, but how you sell for cost.  Uh-huh.

4) When stones begin to be tossed, its hard not to open yourself up to criticism.  For instance, on this thread and others, some posters are listening to music recorded by tapers at previous TBFs or other venues, and no doubt downloaded through sites that pirate music.  I'd bet that any number of folks who make their living through music would consider that theft (despite some artists not objecting). At least as serious a transgression as ticket scalping. 

Just pleading here for some perspective and common decency.  Peace.

since when are tapers bad?

[AnythingAtAll]

Wow, I love this subject, it's fascinating to get different perspectives.

Obviously, in our larger society, scalping is generally legal. The free market is at work right outside the gates of the festival in the form of higher than normal house/condo/hotel prices.

One interesting question this thread brings up: Is that ticket your ticket, or is it a license that you hold which actually belongs to the promoter?

TBF is different from the majority of festivals or concerts in that the promoter, Planet Bluegrass, does not want and does not endorse the scalping of their tickets. We each signed on to that as original purchasers of tickets. There's lots of reasons, but the quick and dirty is that down that road lies the diminishment of the festival experience, and that road starts with fans scalping fans.

In our greater(?) society, scalping is generally OK, in Festivarian society, it's not. Please think about why that is.

 

[FaceOnMars]

I don't think it TRUMPS that 'right' per se?

If you feel scalping should be allowed, then I believe you're essentially saying YES, that a scalper's right to sell above face value is more important.

I don't feel scalping should be allowed on a large scale. I'm completely against bots and companies like StubHub attempting to corner the entire ticket markets.

But I guess, yeah, I'm all for the right of an individual to make a profit from their purchase if the demand exists. I don't look negatively upon that move.

Seems to me that you personal "line in the sand" of scalping being OK for inviduals while being a no-no for large scale efforts is a bit arbitrary.  If you're OK with an individual seeking to make a profit by leveraging the aftermarket to one's advantage, why do you want to limit what a person can do if they really set their mind to it and/or pooled resources?   Beyond postage and fees, I think you're either OK with scalping or you're not.

I don't judge anyone who scalps, but I elect not to do it myself.   I've reversed scalped (buying for less), so not claiming to be a saint in all regards, but do feel there's a reason/spirit behind the no scalping rules which have evolved in communities such as the TBF (and the Grateful Dead) ... which to me, is much more about understanding that the presence of another like minded spirit at such an event is worth much more than leveraging said access to serve only as a means to monitary gain.  There are just some things which shouldn't be marginalized in such a way, IMO.

[Mandhoe]

If you're meant to go, you will be there.  Scalpers are just as bad as any other Joe out there trying to make a profit(basically everyone in the U.S.), so don't be so quick to judge just b/c your broadband speed is below average and you got shut out.  TBF is more enjoyable when you find a creative way to get a ticket anyway.  That being said, I have 4 4 Day passes for $500 a piece.  Best offer get's em!  JK

 Listening to: Head For the Hills

[BluegrassDustin]

Yep, there is something Planet bluegrass can do, they can stop it.By offering previous orders get top priority before they put on sell,so people who been going for years get there tickets. Just seems to me that Planet Bluegrass doesn't truly care about Festivarian, like most of this country all about the money! For example ,raising the price!Big jump. No holiday price due to the scrapers that just started in the last three years.and last took 4 days to get approved to come on to forum.PB needs to look out for those who has been coming for year's. Some of us can't take off of work and sit of internet to buy tickets.

While a great idea on the surface, the festival became too big of an international community years ago for this to be viable. How do we keep the people scalping tickets right now from purchasing tickets again and doing the same next year? I don't know who most any of them are, therefore I couldn't stop them from buying again.

Essentially, it wouldn't change anything regarding this topic.

If there was a policy in place for this year's ticket purchasers to purchase tickets, we'd sell out with this year's crowd again. What about the people who have just discovered this music/ culture? What about Festivarians who have attended for 30 of the 40 years, but missed out on this year due to something beyond their control? Do they not get to come back until someone decides they don't want their grandfathered ticket? ...and what do we do with the, let's say 500 tickets, that don't get bought from the previous year's attendees? If you think it was hard to get a ticket recently, try having that kind of limited quantity. :x

Acoustic music is very much in the limelight right now with bands such as Mumford & Sons, Avett Brothers, even Taylor Swift. (pay attention to how many times you see a banjo on TV or in the movies over the next month. It will surprise you)
Like 'em or not, bands/artists like that are exposing thousands, if not millions, to a style of music they didn't know existed. It's not a long road from discovering an acoustic guitar/ banjo to the history of the Telluride Bluegrass Festival. The inability to grow with the demand is something we'll never overcome. The canyon just can't handle it, and more people would just distract from the overall experience.

Re: we don't care...I take that personally. Everyone here at Planet Bluegrass, myself included, are constantly trying to find the compromise between business and experience. The Festivarian's best interests are ALWAYS a part of the conversation, if not the paramount concern. This organization has, and will continue, to strive to produce the best festival we can in arguably the most unique settings in on the planet.

The reality is, as long as there is more demand than there are tickets, people will scalp. The other reality is that as long as people are taking tickets from honest Festivarians, we will continue to pursue viable options to deter their ability to do so, but we will not do it at the expense of the Festivarian community becoming stagnant or hierarchical.

If nobody buys the tickets for inflated prices, nobody will attempt to buy and sell them for inflated prices.

None of this is intended to be an official decree of what we will or will not do in the future, just the way it is now as I see it.

Telluride is a magical place, and attracts even more magical people. I hope you all get in and that spell is never broken.



D.

[Linds]

Thanks for the reply, Dustin. 

By the way, did you hear about the scalper on the front range who is claiming to have "connections" to Planet Bluegrass?  I believe this is the one:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/telluride-bluegrass-festival-4-day-pass-ticket-mumford-and-sons-6-19-6-22-/321251303302?pt=US_Tickets_all_in_one&hash=item4acc11df86

One of the festivarians sent him an email asking why he's claiming Mumford's on the lineup, when nothing of the sort had been announced, and his reply was that he has "special business connections" with the Planet, and, to quote the email he sent back to said festivarian, "I know more than enough people in the right places to automatically be selected for the lotteries. I have all my invoices from everyone that was selected and charged. Stay on the festivarian forum and off legitimate business websites with your nonsense." 

Just thought y'all would want to know, in case this guy isn't just full of BS and is actually exploiting his relationship with PB.

[BluegrassDustin]

Thanks for the reply, Dustin. 

By the way, did you hear about the scalper on the front range who is claiming to have "connections" to Planet Bluegrass?  I believe this is the one:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/telluride-bluegrass-festival-4-day-pass-ticket-mumford-and-sons-6-19-6-22-/321251303302?pt=US_Tickets_all_in_one&hash=item4acc11df86

One of the festivarians sent him an email asking why he's claiming Mumford's on the lineup, when nothing of the sort had been announced, and his reply was that he has "special business connections" with the Planet, and, to quote the email he sent back to said festivarian, "I know more than enough people in the right places to automatically be selected for the lotteries. I have all my invoices from everyone that was selected and charged. Stay on the festivarian forum and off legitimate business websites with your nonsense." 

Just thought y'all would want to know, in case this guy isn't just full of BS and is actually exploiting his relationship with PB.

Yeah, I saw it.

I checked, and we hadn't allocated any ticket quantities that large to anyone, so he's full of it in that regard.

There are a couple of folks out there that are truly callous in their scalping practices. Undoubtedly, this guy is one of them.

The real rub is that he'll read this and smile.

[KYDeadhead]

No matter how you look at it. We true festivarians do NOT sell our tickets above face. Period, point blank, no arguing about it. 

Not trying to judge what a "true festivarian" is, but speaking for myself, we also don't BUY our tickets above face.

[Hot Sugar]

No matter how you look at it. We true festivarians do NOT sell our tickets above face. Period, point blank, no arguing about it. 

Not trying to judge what a "true festivarian" is, but speaking for myself, we also don't BUY our tickets above face.

 

[Mandhoe]

Thanks for the reply, Dustin. 

By the way, did you hear about the scalper on the front range who is claiming to have "connections" to Planet Bluegrass?  I believe this is the one:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/telluride-bluegrass-festival-4-day-pass-ticket-mumford-and-sons-6-19-6-22-/321251303302?pt=US_Tickets_all_in_one&hash=item4acc11df86

One of the festivarians sent him an email asking why he's claiming Mumford's on the lineup, when nothing of the sort had been announced, and his reply was that he has "special business connections" with the Planet, and, to quote the email he sent back to said festivarian, "I know more than enough people in the right places to automatically be selected for the lotteries. I have all my invoices from everyone that was selected and charged. Stay on the festivarian forum and off legitimate business websites with your nonsense." 

Just thought y'all would want to know, in case this guy isn't just full of BS and is actually exploiting his relationship with PB.

I think M&S playing TBF this year is a VERY safe bet.

[Linds]

Yeah, I saw it.

I checked, and we hadn't allocated any ticket quantities that large to anyone, so he's full of it in that regard.

There are a couple of folks out there that are truly callous in their scalping practices. Undoubtedly, this guy is one of them.

The real rub is that he'll read this and smile.
[/quote]


He's got 4 or 5 ads up - one for Town Park tickets, one for 4-day passes, and one for single passes.  It seems doubtful he actually has all those tickets (especially since he was claiming to have 10 4-days).  If we all report the guy for trying to sell something he doesn't have, maybe ebay will get the hint.

[Auntie Hope]

No matter how you look at it. We true festivarians do NOT sell our tickets above face. Period, point blank, no arguing about it. 

Not trying to judge what a "true festivarian" is, but speaking for myself, we also don't BUY our tickets above face.

 

Buying OR Selling Above FACE is Scalping... end of story.

As for you, Mr. DenverBongcos,

Have you ever heard the story behind the famous Festivarian quote....
"You Suck. Go Home."

The gist of the story is, we're all in this together. However, there is a line.

The line says, when someone OFFERS you more than face, the TRUE FESTIVARIAN will say, "No Man, I paid face, you pay face, but you can buy me a beer and/or flank steak when we get there. 

Auntie Hope 

 Listening to: my brain screaming "DO NOT USE THE NAME TAYLOR SWIFT ON THE BLUEGRASS FORUM!!!"

[sdmjake]

You tell em Auntie.
I bought Nightgrass tickets last year from a fellow festivarian on this board last year. They were the only missing piece that I didn't get in the lotteries. I was willing to 'pay extra'...but was simply charged face. And the tickets were sent to me before i sent a dime. Trust. Community spirit. Kindness. That is what it is all about and what makes it so cool.

{thanks again, Armmon!}

[skyrunner]

    Hello, look I'm sorry I did not include "Buy", when I made the statement about being a true festivarian.  The simple point I was trying to make is we, as festivarians work with nothing more than face price. No matter if its buying, selling, or trading, we deal with face price, and that's it.  This is only my little humble opinion, but Mr. DenverBrongos has apologized, and that's good enough for me. At that time he did not know how we believe. Instead of yelling, how about we show people why we became festivarians in the first place. Dear Mr. DenverBongos, and any other new people we have here, welcome to the fold. We hope you will come be a part of who we are.