Selling tickets for the subsequent year AT the festival?

[JoeBu]

Billy, if the demand outpaces the supply of tickets, then I think we'd be rewarding a form of "loyalty" based mostly in luck (of the draw).

I remember it was actually something to do with tour guides getting to the front of the line for permits to raft/guide the Grand Canyon if they didn't get picked the previous year ... so it wasn't a music festival.    However, that person's suggestion made sense from the point of view of fairness.   If PB transitions to a lottery for all 4-day passes (which isn't out of the realm of possibility), it would be very easy to figure to at least figure out who didn't get a chance to buy a ticket.   Figuring out whether they were able to attend (i.e. friend got them a ticket) would be add to the complexity.  If it moved to flash tickets, then tracking of actual attendance could be made easier on this front.    Not saying this would work easily, but simply stating that I think it would be more fair vs. allowing people to buy tickets for the next year's festival during the festival.

 

They one thing I would support in this vein would be a membership system.  i.e. if you pay a yearly fee to join a PB Non-Profit with proceeds going to youth music programs then you are allowed to purchase an advance ticket.  It would have to be a limited amount, but I would support that.
 
But Non-Transferable Flash seats are the only thing that can stop most of the scalping

[benroscoe]

That would be really awesome to see the Flash ticket concept used. That is by far the easiest thing to stop scalping that I've heard suggested. I'm sure that PB could work with someone to set that up by next year. Even if it adds $5 to my ticket cost I would be happy to pay it.

[FaceOnMars]

I may be naive but I don't think this is an influx of scalpers buying tickets today..

I don't really think so either.  But I do think that a lot of people bought more tickets than they needed, and are going to be selling the extra on StubHub, Craigslist, Ebay, etc.  I don't mean thousands of tickets, but I do suspect a couple of hundred 4-day passes were bought today specifically to resell to offset the cost of the fest.   The fact that there are already 70 of them on StubHub make me think that's not unreasonable.

I think you might be on to something here.   Assuming there hasn't been a huge influx of scalpers or a significant reduction in 4-day passes vs. single day tix, I would tend to think that people are simply hoarding tickets early on.   While it might only be a couple hundred which were bought to sell off and defray the cost, it's possible there were another couple thousand which were bought as speculation for friends/family ... or trade bait for other items such as nightgrass.

If this is the case (which I don't know one way or the other), then perhaps it might be time to consider limiting the total number of 4-day passes from four down to two.

[oddfired]

I'll be bold enough to admit that I bought tickets I didn't need.  I have no intention to sell them for more than face value, but I might need them for leverage to get the TP vehicle pass I need.  Maybe that makes me a bad person, but I'm not trying to profit on my tickets, just playing the game that's set forth in front of me.  And the last 2 years I have been in the condos and at Mary E, and while those were great and provided their own experience, this year I was lucky enough to draw in the lottery, so I want to make it the best year it can be. 

If I'm not able to use my extras for their intended purpose, I will probably miracle them.  There is no better feeling.  FESTIVAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL!!!!

[3boobykins]

I may be naive but I don't think this is an influx of scalpers buying tickets today..

I don't really think so either.  But I do think that a lot of people bought more tickets than they needed, and are going to be selling the extra on StubHub, Craigslist, Ebay, etc.  I don't mean thousands of tickets, but I do suspect a couple of hundred 4-day passes were bought today specifically to resell to offset the cost of the fest.   The fact that there are already 70 of them on StubHub make me think that's not unreasonable.

I think you might be on to something here.   Assuming there hasn't been a huge influx of scalpers or a significant reduction in 4-day passes vs. single day tix, I would tend to think that people are simply hoarding tickets early on.   While it might only be a couple hundred which were bought to sell off and defray the cost, it's possible there were another couple thousand which were bought as speculation for friends/family ... or trade bait for other items such as nightgrass.

If this is the case (which I don't know one way or the other), then perhaps it might be time to consider limiting the total number of 4-day passes from four down to two.

[/b]


Lowering the number of passes from four to two would hardly be fair for families.  We have three kids, and have for the first time this year (third TBF) had to purchase a pass and camping for our son, who will be 13 in April.  At some point both my husband and I will have to go online at the same time to buy enough passes for our whole family as it stands now with the 4-pass limit.  If the number was lowered to two per person we'd have to have yet another person online buying enough tickets for all of us.  Limiting passes to two really wouldn't be in the family-friendly spirit of the festival.  

[FaceOnMars]

I may be naive but I don't think this is an influx of scalpers buying tickets today..

I don't really think so either.  But I do think that a lot of people bought more tickets than they needed, and are going to be selling the extra on StubHub, Craigslist, Ebay, etc.  I don't mean thousands of tickets, but I do suspect a couple of hundred 4-day passes were bought today specifically to resell to offset the cost of the fest.   The fact that there are already 70 of them on StubHub make me think that's not unreasonable.

I think you might be on to something here.   Assuming there hasn't been a huge influx of scalpers or a significant reduction in 4-day passes vs. single day tix, I would tend to think that people are simply hoarding tickets early on.   While it might only be a couple hundred which were bought to sell off and defray the cost, it's possible there were another couple thousand which were bought as speculation for friends/family ... or trade bait for other items such as nightgrass.

If this is the case (which I don't know one way or the other), then perhaps it might be time to consider limiting the total number of 4-day passes from four down to two.

[/b]


Lowering the number of passes from four to two would hardly be fair for families.  We have three kids, and have for the first time this year (third TBF) had to purchase a pass and camping for our son, who will be 13 in April.  At some point both my husband and I will have to go online at the same time to buy enough passes for our whole family as it stands now with the 4-pass limit.  If the number was lowered to two per person we'd have to have yet another person online buying enough tickets for all of us.  Limiting passes to two really wouldn't be in the family-friendly spirit of the festival.  

3b's:  you're absolutely correct that some families might be on the short end of the stick if 4-days were reduced to two tickets max.    Perhaps there could be an exclusion for children if such a limit were put in place.    This is where flash ticketing might solve things by being able to tether the exclusions (aka kids) to the core purchase ... so as the kid tix couldn't be resold to adults.

Nonetheless, if the demand keeps (apparently) escalating, we might all have to re-calibrate our ideas regarding what is "fair".   Think about it, what if the demand increases by 5x over the next 10 years?

This all assumes that hoarding was taking place and is the crux of the issue of "premature sellout". 

[FaceOnMars]

I'll be bold enough to admit that I bought tickets I didn't need.  I have no intention to sell them for more than face value, but I might need them for leverage to get the TP vehicle pass I need.  Maybe that makes me a bad person, but I'm not trying to profit on my tickets, just playing the game that's set forth in front of me.  And the last 2 years I have been in the condos and at Mary E, and while those were great and provided their own experience, this year I was lucky enough to draw in the lottery, so I want to make it the best year it can be. 

If I'm not able to use my extras for their intended purpose, I will probably miracle them.  There is no better feeling.  FESTIVAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL!!!!

oddfired: I have no moral judgment of buying extras which you'd either sell for face / miracle.  It's allowable under the rules & you have your reasons.  It's certainly not for me judge.

I was tempted to buy a second ticket in hopes my brother or someone else close might make it out for the fest, but I remembered how lucky I was last year to recoup my cost on an extra at the last minute.

I suggested this merely as something to consider for the future to help distribute tix in the most equitable manner possible ... definitely not looking to point fingers at anyone in particular or question their reasons.  Rather, I'm (very lightly) questioning the current policy as it might relate to what might be a recent macro trend (of hoarding).

[BillyBeru]

3b's:  you're absolutely correct that some families might be on the short end of the stick if 4-days were reduced to two tickets max.    Perhaps there could be an exclusion for children if such a limit were put in place.    This is where flash ticketing might solve things by being able to tether the exclusions (aka kids) to the core purchase ... so as the kid tix couldn't be resold to adults.

Nonetheless, if the demand keeps (apparently) escalating, we might all have to re-calibrate our ideas regarding what is "fair".   Think about it, what if the demand increases by 5x over the next 10 years?

This all assumes that hoarding was taking place and is the crux of the issue of "premature sellout". 

FOM, I'm from Washington, DC and I think you'd fit right in on Capitol Hill. 

[FaceOnMars]

3b's:  you're absolutely correct that some families might be on the short end of the stick if 4-days were reduced to two tickets max.    Perhaps there could be an exclusion for children if such a limit were put in place.    This is where flash ticketing might solve things by being able to tether the exclusions (aka kids) to the core purchase ... so as the kid tix couldn't be resold to adults.

Nonetheless, if the demand keeps (apparently) escalating, we might all have to re-calibrate our ideas regarding what is "fair".   Think about it, what if the demand increases by 5x over the next 10 years?

This all assumes that hoarding was taking place and is the crux of the issue of "premature sellout". 

FOM, I'm from Washington, DC and I think you'd fit right in on Capitol Hill. 

I don't know Billy, I'd have hard time living in Durango let alone DC.  I'm typically diametrically opposed to special interests' flexing muscle in public affairs.   This is partly what drives me to seek fairness 

[landshark]

[quote author=oddfired link=topic=16980.msg89420#msg89420 date=1354840309
If I'm not able to use my extras for their intended purpose, I will probably miracle them.  There is no better feeling.  FESTIVAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL!!!!
[/quote]

  Been there and done that and this year perhaps it will be me that needs the miracle Remember me

[ShatteredArm]

I still think a lot of the headache could have been prevented if they had the architecture to actually account for massive spikes in traffic, but that's just the software engineer bias I guess...

[BuckeyeDog]

I still think a lot of the headache could have been prevented if they had the architecture to actually account for massive spikes in traffic, but that's just the software engineer bias I guess...

Being new to this forum, and this being my first post, I think whoever mentioned high demand was probably right about that being the reason for the quick sale. And the technology could have been better. But I was eventually able to get on by noon (EST) and get 4 tix.
I have been to TBF several times in the 80s and 90s, but life took over and have not been there since 2001. This is the 40th, and with my son now in college we finally said &*@#-it, let's go back this year, and the festival gods were with us. Bet I won't be the only old-timer there hanging out with the young ones. May even bring my guitar.
Looking forward to the hike to Bear Creek. Have done it in each of the last 3 decades, this will make 4. Cat't wait to see all my old festival friends.

 Listening to: Flying Burrito Brothers--Colorado