Sorry to beat this dead TARP!!!

[helixer]

I gotta say it every year. Tarp sizes need to be limited. Every year, you have the huge tarps that would hold 20+ people comfortably with 6 to 10 people on 'em. I know what the rules say, but the end result is always the same: huge empty tarp space up front while others are 150 yards away, with two people on a small but resonable sized tarp.  If you want to be so close that you have someone in line willing to miss half the previous day's show, then fine. But give'em a limit of say, and 8 x 10 or 6 x10 tarp size. 

 Listening to: crickets outside my window

[Pearhead]

i couldn't agree more...

 Listening to: ymsb2011-06-17

[SantaFe_Sue]

Dead tarp space *is* messed up. I got around it by walking down front, planting my butt down and THEN saying with a big smile, "yah don't mind if I sit here on this part of your tarp you're not using for this set, do ya?" Saw the Stringdusters,  Tim O, and Darrell's Gospel Hour from the front row that way. Sweet!

What bugged ME was returning from Elk Park workshops to discover huge tarps half-covering my modest 8 by 7 foot tarp, my chairs shoved to the very edge, and people's feet and belongings taking up most of what was left. Hated having to play heavy and tell folks to move, but whadayagonnado?

[BluegrassDustin]

For the sake of discussion...


How would you reccomend that we police the tarp size?

It seems unreasonable to ask each person to unfold their tarp in line to check the size...or does it?

I'm curious as to your thoughts on how we could efficiently regulate the issue.

As always, we're listening...

[ShatteredArm]

I don't think tarp size is too big a deal.  I didn't see that many offenders.  And if they have extra space, just sit in the empty area and point out that they don't appear to be using it.

During the more more popular shows, everybody just went up to the front anyways, and pretty much disregarded any tarps that may or may not have been under their feet, rendering the tarp discussion moot, as far as the front of the audience is concerned.

[zack_adcock]

Speaking as a potential "offender" (though we tend to sit pretty far back and I gather the complaint is about the more coveted space up front), we traveled with 10 people this year and decided to use a large tarp to stake our ground each morning as opposed to two or three smaller ones. All ten of us are present at the same time for between 3 and 4 hours of the day -- to us enough time to warrant that much space, though admittedly there's a lot of time each day that only 2 or 3 of us are on the tarp, which obviously makes it appear as if we're hoarding space / "offending".

However, and honestly, unless you're going to host an interview with everyone getting in from the line about how many people will be sitting on that specific tarp with relation to its square footage, I think the one person-one tarp rule continues to make sense along with the suggestion that empty space be respectfully used ("respectfully" being a keystone term).

[Hooch]

I don't think tarp size is too big a deal.  I didn't see that many offenders.  And if they have extra space, just sit in the empty area and point out that they don't appear to be using it.

During the more more popular shows, everybody just went up to the front anyways, and pretty much disregarded any tarps that may or may not have been under their feet, rendering the tarp discussion moot, as far as the front of the audience is concerned.

Agree!!!

[Lisa Delia]

Empty tarps=bigger dance floor!

[completejohn]

Big empty tarps = more dance room, yes, but those also put MY tarp farther away.  We all want to be close, but for the artists who perform later, tarps just don't mean much anyway.

I know that tarp size has been discussed for many years, but it was interesting to hear the many loud comments from the rookies.  They sensed more of a problem than I did, cuz I am so used to the tarp-inflation that seems to happen every year. 

But how CAN it be enforced?  I would think having pre-run tarp presentations would be horrible.  So perhaps the only way to enforce tarp size would be after the tarps are placed.  Larger than regulation sized tarps would be folded to the correct size, allowing others to move in or slide over.  That would have to happen AFTER the main rush, after "Soundman, Turn Up The Sound" when things had settled down.  Most of us are just waiting for our chair delivery at that time.  The knowledge that our tarps could get folded would probably be enough to make sure that we wouldn't run with a larger tarp.  This would also create more people in the tarp line, because two smaller tarps might be needed to cover larger parties, so the runs would be even longer.   

I would NOT enforce a tarp size at all for anyone behind, say, the sound board.  Larger parties should be able to put large tarps out, just not in the primo area.  This kind of policy seems to work well for the high-back chairs.

That's just an enforcement idea.  I wonder how many people really think this is enough of a problem to warrant action.  I KNOW that people who have large parties and the ability to share the time in the tarp line won't think so.  But as a "small" tarp-er, I sure would at least like to have the discussion.

[fundirector23]

Hmmm...how about NO tarps? Only blankets and chairs?!?! 

[Cowboy Coffee]

we have met our best friends in the world sharing extra tarp space!  sometimes it's crowed, and sometimes, it's just a couple of us. it always works out.

[Mark in Alabama]

It does seems that we have this discussion every year.  The rules as they exist now work extremely well in my humble opinion.  I have made life long friends with people who plopped down on my tarp over the years.  For the last several years I have been storing my tarps and camping gear in one of their garages.

The idea that we could regulate tarp size by going around and measuring and folding back tarps seems nearly impossible to enforce.  Who at Planet Bluegrass has time, in the approximate 45 minutes between when the "land rush" ends and the first set begins, to go around and measure all of the hundreds of tarps in front of the sound board?  I am guessing no-one.  Dustin, feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.

Yes there are times when tarps will be empty and/or underpopulated.  This is a natural function of a 12 hour long music day.  While our camp's tarp may occasionally be empty/under-populated, there are times of day when it is slam packed.  To judge an empty tarp at a particular time of day does not necessarily give one the whole story regarding that particular tarp's "owners."  What if they had a communal meal taking place in the campground at that particular time?

The rule of no reserved seating, and the concomitant open tarp space rule, works well and should not be changed.  I think people concerned with empty or unpopulated tarp space simply need to use the empty tarp space as the rules state.  I have a hard time believing that any festivarian who has any experience in our community would object to someone sharing empty tarp space.  It just does not seem logical.  

I think the greater issue is patrons who don't feel confident that the tarp rules as written are actually embraced by a great majority of the festivarians.  I earnestly believe that we festivarians, as a general rule, tend to enjoy meeting new people and sharing the incredible musical offerings we are presented.  

Finally, everyone has equal access to down front tarps by merely getting in line.  And to be fair, you do not have to miss "half of the previous day's show" to do so. (please do not take this as a slam on the original poster as that is certainly not my intent).  Our group never get's in line until the end of the final set and we never have any trouble getting withing three or four tarps of the front row.

If there is a problem that should be addressed I would suggest that it is the pre-line in TP where people line their chairs up all day long across from the fence to move as soon as the final act starts.  I think these people should have their chairs confiscated, wrist-bands cut and be sterilized.  

 Listening to: DukTape Man bitch about the substandard corn dogs in Alabama.

[zack_adcock]

Well said, Mark, but to other complaints in different spaces on this board (and this is probably not common, but has happened to me), in past years I have invited / accepted others onto my tarp space that I waited in line for only to find that they want to gather themselves and 20 friends that they then beckon in a very small space, be loud during the music, chain smoke cigarettes, and be overall disruptive. In other words, I understand when people are skeptical, from both sides, of that "free space" rule.

I know I sound like a curmudgeon here, and I also know that using an empty tarp and sharing the extra tarp space you are currently occupying are two different things, but that past experience has made me seriously consider whether or not I will always "allow" just anyone to share my tarp if I am only going to have to ask them to move along later for being disruptive, etc.

I know it's a festival, and that if I want a completely smoke-free, quiet environment I should stay home and listen on KOTO, but I also think that respect of space goes both ways -- that people with free space need to share it, but the people who that space is shared with need to be respectful of the space they're taking over as well (which, if I remember, is unspoken, though implied, in the by-laws:-))

My brother and I always have long conversations (both at festival and outside of it) about whether people are oblivious or if people just don't give a f&%$ about anyone else, particularly when it comes to things like use of open tarp space, or (as happened this year) setting up tall chairs in the 3x12 foot space between our tarp and the tarp in front of us when my pregnant wife is sitting on the ground watching the stage right behind them, or cutting in line, etc. 

The bottom line is that there's a lot less of this behavior at TBF than at most other large gatherings of music fans, and I think my problem is that I spend 98% of the year remembering TBF as perfect and 2% seething at the (honestly minor) imperfections. :-)

[landshark]

We shared our up front tarp all 4 days. 
Met some great folks and at times it was very crowded. Even shared my tarp with a fella who deceided he did not like me after he asked what I did for a living.

 He was an oil man, I clean up his mess. Very funny indeed.  He moved rather quickly, gee thats toooooo bad

[DukTapeMan]

If there is a problem that should be addressed I would suggest that it is the pre-line in TP where people line their chairs up all day long across from the fence to move as soon as the final act starts.  I think these people should have their chairs confiscated, wrist-bands cut and be sterilized.  

What he said. <hic!>