I'm exited, are you excited?

[RockyMtnGuy]

  I wouldn't say he bashed TBF.  He lied. Plain and simple.  He said the the Huck Finn fest had a better lineup than TBF, and then went on to name several unknown non-national acts.  He made no mention of SCI, by the way; which was the source of consternation in this thread.
  Considering that the focus of the report was a locally developed toaster and a gold-panning display (which could easily be replicated at Famcamp), I found the story/video to be pretty much merit-less. 
 

[landshark]

A Fest is a living breathing thing. An entity all to its self. It is all the elements together that create the vibe. What is so outstanding about PBG and TBF is that PBG listens and injects bands that are thoughtful and fan suggested. They are not a money machine stuffing thousands of fans into a small space.

They not only inject brilliant lineup additions the vibe they promote is hard to find anywhere on the entire planet.
 Share, be kind, kinfolk. Not just a Fest, it is an entity that breathes and exudes all the things that have been promoted.
 

Yeah I'm excited

[FaceOnMars]

My suspicion is there might be a bit of misplaced anger by HFJJ with respect to frustration of how the lineup panned out from a "traditionalist's perspective" this year.   I totally get it when the lineup doesn't go the way one wants ... especially if it's a big chunk of change in relation to the overall lineup's composition.

Perhaps HFJJ might want to take pause and consider the possibility that it's possible he/she is amplifying the effect a few bad apples may have had on the overall experience.  From my perspective, the festival attendees were by and large very respectful across the board.  It was far from the "free for all" which HFJJ alluded to.  I definitely saw a few who carried a disrespectful vibe and were simply looking to "rage" ... but I firmly believe they were in the vast minority.  Maybe outward appearances would cause an "outsider" (to the SCI scene) to group everyone into the same lot, but in reality the overwhelming majority of SCI fans were respectful of other's space.  In fact, I'd even go so far as to say they were too respectful (by not venturing into the wide swaths of empty chairs).

I suppose I could make parallel claims about "all traditionalists" from a conversation I heard at the La Quinta Inn on Sat. morning while my waffle was cooking in the breakfast area ... went something along the lines of "and when I saw those DRUMS, I knew we were screwed" or "that girl who kept dancing and was oblivious to blah blah blah", etc. etc.  Yet I also had a full 10 minute conversation the night before with a "traditionalist" which was very cordial and somewhat of a meeting of two worlds on common ground with a true sense of tolerance.  So, while I still maintain the imagery of uptight older crowd with arms tightly folded against their chest, I know that is not REALLY the case in terms of how the majority of long time Huck Finn patrons ought to be characterized.  Perhaps it's accurate for some, but I don't believe it's a fair general assessment ... as it undermines being able to engage people on an individual basis, let alone the fact that people are "fluid" - some of which are open to change or new things.

So instead of hammering on a negative generalization of a large group of people based upon the poor behavior of a few, I would suggest redirecting your frustration in a more appropriate direction and manner ... that being the event promoter.

[KYDeadhead]

It seems the SCI/Huck Finn conversation jumped from one thread to another.

[HFJubileeJam]

I appreciate the discourse. I guess I could even be considered a troll. Sort of the nature of forums.

I guess I would just ask any of you have you ever been to HFJ before? If you haven't you do not know how drastic of a change it was. I agree the new promoter is really responsible, but I have read endless discussions about how these crotchety old timers didn't show any respect. They have been building that festival for 30+ years. In my opinion they don't owe anyone respect who just showed up once for essentially one band.

I'm pretty sure that guy you showed in the video will kill this festival. I love HFJ but saying it is better than Telluride is just stupid. It's not even better than Hardly Strictly from a festival standpoint. What it was though was a unique traditional bluegrass festival with very family friendly activities. The Jammers Campground was something special and it is really sad to see it crumble.

By the way FOM I did do something. I set up huckfinnjubilee.com to try and create a forum for fan discussion.

[HuckinFappy]

In my opinion they don't owe anyone respect who just showed up once for essentially one band.

and there's the problem.

[Hot Sugar]

In my opinion they don't owe anyone respect who just showed up once for essentially one band.

and there's the problem.

Exactly. That's what makes Telluride so great. Very few people have the opinion that being a veteran gives you special privilege. Everyone treats everyone else with respect. One of the best friends I've made at Telluride has been attending for longer than I've been alive. Most have ten fests on me. I've met at least one guy who's been to all 41 fests. But they never make me feel like a second class festivarian because of it.

If you don't treat the young blood with respect, they'll stop showing up and the festival will die. Maybe they showed up for one band. What does that matter? When I first came to Telluride, I came solely to see Sam Bush and Darrell Scott. Through that first experience, I was introduced to Yonder, Hot Rize, Ricky Skaggs, Bruce Hornsby, Peter Rowan, Leftover Salmon, John Cowan, Bill Nershi, and The Steep Canyon Rangers. And that was only my first year.

But what I loved most about the festival was talking to people on the tarps and in lines. Not one of them made me feel like a second class citizen. Instead, they all treated that 16 year old kid who drove down from MT with two of his brothers for his first festival ever like he was already one of them.

So, if this promoter is trying to bring new people to your festival and you're not happy about it, maybe its your attitude that will eventually kill the Huck Finn Jubilee.

 Listening to: Yonder

[HuckinFappy]

In my opinion they don't owe anyone respect who just showed up once for essentially one band.

and there's the problem.

Exactly. That's what makes Telluride so great. Very few people have the opinion that being a veteran gives you special privilege. Everyone treats everyone else with respect. One of the best friends I've made at Telluride has been attending for longer than I've been alive. Most have ten fests on me. I've met at least one guy who's been to all 41 fests. But they never make me feel like a second class festivarian because of it.

I had decided HFJJ didn't deserve the attention of that many words, but you've got it, kid 

[FaceOnMars]

By the way FOM I did do something. I set up huckfinnjubilee.com to try and create a forum for fan discussion.

Interesting read.  I suppose I understand your perspective a bit more, but still inclined to disagree in so far as the concerted effort to reign in, nudge, or steer any deviations from what is considered traditional.  For example, you wrote:

Make it an acoustic only show for all performers. The Infamous Stringdusters are another fantastic band that might get lumped in with Newgrass or Jamgrass, but they are actually stellar bluegrass players. Would they be willing to tailor a set for a traditional bluegrass festival?

^  Personally, I really like the ISD & they've "hit the spot" for me on more than one occasion; however, if I had to be completely up front, I'd say they're a bit too "traditional" for my tastes in so far as not seeking a steady diet.  On the flip side of what you suggested (i.e. "tailored set"), I suppose I could say something similar but from the other side of the spectrum in so far as wanting to hear the ISD with drums and keys thrown into the ensemble.  Personally, I think it could elevate they're playing to an entirely new level, but if its not what they're individually (and as a band) are after, then it would probably not have legs for very long.  I just think musicians ought to be afforded the latitude to follow their muse.

On a related note:  I found both of SCI's first sets @ Huck Finn were amazing as being "stripped down" (electronically speaking; mostly acoustic instruments except for keys [which were toned down] no drum kit or large percussion setup) ... which was clearly a nod to the traditionalists.   Truth be told, I was extremely hesitant to make the drive out there with the possibility of SCI "just doing bluegrass" ... being a bigger fan of their "larger" (electronic) sound and knowing that I'd be at TBF in short order for essentially more of the same.  As it turns out, I was pretty well blown away at times to hear some of their tunes broken down to more of their more basic elements.   I'm fairly well convinced they probably spent a good deal of time working things up for a more "acoustic" presentation ... which I think says a lot about how the band basically bent over backwards to try and create a "big tent" scenario as the headliner.  I think they may have pulled it off to the extent they could ... as I believe it was accessible at times for some of the more "moderate traditionalists", while at the same time was appreciated by SCI fans (very much so by the more "traditionalists" element within the latter camp - believe it or not, there are internal "divisions" along these lines).  At the end of the day, I'm not sure if SCI as a band would opt to adopt such a transformation on a permanent basis.  I think they'd probably break up in time due to divergent interests.  The point being, there's only so much the tail (i.e. the peneaut gallery, aka "us") can wag the dog on this front.  Here's a recording (audio quality of the first song is pretty lousy ... but for is pretty good for rest of show):

https://archive.org/details/SCI2014-06-14.HuckFinn

I'd be curious to hear a "traditionalist's take" on the Travelin' McCourys.

Personal tastes in music aside, I suppose my original point in the other thread had more to do with the fairness of how GA & seating is handled at Huck Finn and in relation to how things work at TBF along similar lines.

[FaceOnMars]

In my opinion they don't owe anyone respect who just showed up once for essentially one band.

and there's the problem.

Exactly. That's what makes Telluride so great. Very few people have the opinion that being a veteran gives you special privilege. Everyone treats everyone else with respect. One of the best friends I've made at Telluride has been attending for longer than I've been alive. Most have ten fests on me. I've met at least one guy who's been to all 41 fests. But they never make me feel like a second class festivarian because of it.

I had decided HFJJ didn't deserve the attention of that many words, but you've got it, kid 

The LA metro area kind of makes my whole being "cringe" ... but I have to admit I liked the HF venue itself.  It is an interesting hybrid of natural elements (trees/ponds) and "manufactured" features - large kids water park & playgrounds.  It's also on the western edge of the LA metro area, so maybe in the back of my mind I always felt I could "escape" if need be.   This is to say nothing of the two In-N-Outs within 5 minutes!

[Hot Sugar]

"The Infamous Stringdusters are another fantastic band that might get lumped in with Newgrass or Jamgrass, but they are actually stellar bluegrass players. Would they be willing to tailor a set for a traditional bluegrass festival?"

HFJJ, it seems you respect the talent of The Infamous Stringdusters, who happen to be my favorite band. You may find this speech from The Dusters' Banjo Ace, Chris Pandolfi very interesting. He was asked to be the keynote speaker at the IBMA award ceremony in 2011 and his speech is simply brilliant. It's long, close to an hour, but it's well worth listening to.

http://vimeo.com/29731282

 Listening to: Peter Rowan

[HFJubileeJam]

I do like Chis' thoughtful take and have read some of his stuff. Did you notice he said acoustic music a lot? The SCI link that FOM shared was a full on electric jam band. Yes it was more bluegrass with the McCoury's but that bluegrass was sandwiched between hours of what is essentially the Dead. Why would anyone expect a traditional bluegrass fan to like that? Remember the context for the issue. The big bluegrass tent idea was harmed by this assinine booking at 30+ year traditional bluegrass festival. The other stupid move was going full electric later because now all the disappointed bluegrass players went to jam and couldn't hear anything.

Just watch the KTLA clip of the promoter and the problem is easily identified.

Interesting that nobody mentions having gone to Huck Finn Jubilee before. How can someone form a strong opinion and call others close minded on a subject they have no knowledge of?

[Hot Sugar]

You're right. No traditional bluegrass fan would like electric jam music.

On a side note, anyone remember the banjo player from Mother McCree's Uptown Jug Champions? Whatever became of him? I hear that that traditional bluegrass fan went on to form a few mildly successful bands . . .

[BillyBeru]

Interesting that nobody mentions having gone to Huck Finn Jubilee before. How can someone form a strong opinion and call others close minded on a subject they have no knowledge of?

I've been passively reading the discussion and back and forth. No one on this board has criticized the actual music or experience of the HF Jubilee (just the new promoter for saying HF had a better lineup than Telluride).

You are the only person criticizing any style/band/fans.

also, I went to your forum site. Not very objective when you have thread headers such as "Jamgrass smells GrrrrrrAss" and openly criticize music from Yonder Mountain.

This forum is about positivity (except when the topic of tarps comes up). I recommend if you feel the need to have a "negative" conversation you do so on your own blog and let us get back to some fun.

[FaceOnMars]

The SCI link that FOM shared was a full on electric jam band. Yes it was more bluegrass with the McCoury's but that bluegrass was sandwiched between hours of what is essentially the Dead. Why would anyone expect a traditional bluegrass fan to like that? Remember the context for the issue. The big bluegrass tent idea was harmed by this assinine booking at 30+ year traditional bluegrass festival. The other stupid move was going full electric later because now all the disappointed bluegrass players went to jam and couldn't hear anything.

It was definitely not a "full on electric jam band" all the time.  Except for the keyboard player, everyone was playing acoustic instruments entirely for each night's first set.  You'll have to take my word for it the keyboard player held back in so far as reigning in his tones to be relatively conservative.   I suppose he could've played on piano, but this would be splitting hairs in light of the larger point I was trying to convey:  SCI *purposefully* eliminated electric from their arrangements (in the first sets).  In listening to their stage banter, one could easily hear them being "caught in the middle" if you read in between the lines.  They clearly TRIED to bridge worlds ... I think this can't be overstated enough.

I don't necessarily *expect* a traditional bluegrass fan to like this, but perhaps some did ... or at least were able to appreciate some aspect of it for various reasons.

I admit to not knowing the full history of Huck Finn, but maybe it's possible you're unaware of some of the issues the promoters are facing in terms of making it a viable festival while still adhering to it's "traditional" foundation?   Maybe the change in venue created significantly more overhead which they're attempting to cover via a "big tent" to scale up revenues?