My observations of the line procedure

[FaceOnMars]

It'd sure be nice to turn back the clock to yesteryear and have a 4am "start time" be orderly and reasonable, but unfortunately it seems the genie is out of the bottle at this stage of the game.  A very slippery slope has emerged whereby a large number of people are all competing to be in the front of the pack & have pushed the limits beyond reason.

While randomizing the first 100 numbers might be a step in the right direction, I don't know that it'd put a sufficient road block to the slippery slope & it still doesn't address the "institutional advantage" a large camp would still have over couples/smaller_groups who would still be subject to not getting any sleep every night vs. big camps where people take turns with duties.

I agree that empty chairs which violate the rules should be tossed aside ... but this is a good example of how festivarian spirit and basic human nature can be at odds.  IOW, most people won't make the direct confrontation and will prefer to go with the flow of "good vibes".  Who wants to ruffle anyone's feathers?  Yet at the same time, some people are willing to make more "passive" incremental gains by pushing the envelope of established rules under the cloak of the masses.

By contrast, on a powder day, if people started lining up their skis/boards in the lift line the night before, you better believe they'll be tossed aside come 6am or whenever the first person shows up!  Seems to me, the "no friends on a powder day" mantra at least cuts to the chase, yet we all get along and smile together.

Certainly not looking to pile more work on to PB, but I don't think it would be an enormous undertaking by any stretch ... although I'm sure there'd be a transitional period which whereby people would need to get used to & accept randomization of the tarp line.

 
 

Sure thing ,FOS, aka Mr. Mundane.

Easy there Billy, its going to be alright 

Keep pushing it, FOM. Come out and tell everyone how you really feel about the Telluride Bluegrass Festival.

STFU

As much as we disagree on this topic & perhaps our personalities aren't exactly on the same page, please know that I have no bad bones with you at all Billy.  How could I?  I don't really know you.

As far as my feelings re: the TBF, it's definitely my favorite festival (musically speaking) which comes through town ... although I'm a deadhead first and foremost and have picked up SCI as a runner up in recent years.   This is even in light of the fact that only Blues & Brews will have hosted all remaining members of the Grateful Dead (as of this year Mickey will be here), but on the whole I like TBF much better for a number of reasons.

But to get to what you're driving at (based on your pm's):  TBF is not 100% my thing ... although it certainly ranks up there!  I'm into Sam Bush, Bela Fleck, LOS, Emmy Lou, GSBG, RRE, YMSB Grisman, etc. but wouldn't travel very far to see them as they don't do it 100% for me as far as "face melting" is concerned (although Sam Bush's set reached that level this year).   Maybe I've been spoiled and take it for granted.

I already travel tons to see Further/Phil/Ratdog/SCI over the years ... and have also done so too to a lesser extent for Peter Rowan.   Even if TBF isn't a direct bull's eye for my very particular tastes, it's well in the ballpark to dedicate 4 days+ at my home venue where I don't have to travel 2000 miles rt.

I can also go on about how I've played mandolin & guitar for years, but it all doesn't have anything to do one way or the other with my feelings about how the line/tarp situation has de-volved.  One doesn't have to be #1 in the fan club to make an observation about the equity of how things are going down re: the tarp issue (I believe 95% of the rest of the festival is run extremely well).

[landshark]

  still hashin it out hua? Huck is correct, we are the police of our own fest nation, speak up, react, police the situation yourselves for tarp line infractions.

I say lets get funky with it. 9 A.M. A round of ice cold beer for all the runners, blindfold them, and open the flippin gate, may the best folk win

Vets, get a golden ticket but must host or man the gates  for that smooth ride into fest

and me well I have come to the conclusion that TBF is just part of who I am and any way I get it is OK with me but not to attend hurts so Im willin to run blindfolded.

[completejohn]

Let's remember that Craig WANTED to hear our input.  Way back on page 3 of this thread, he asked for our suggestions and ideas.  That's why this thread continues to move along.

We ALL love this fest, and we ALL want to make it even better.  So a few suggestions might be helpful.  It will be up to Craig and the staff to determine what changes might be made and whether they want to be involved in the tarp line fiasco at all.  Maybe they see that some tweaking could make our experience even better, or perhaps they'll say they are too busy to do anything about it.

But let's face it:  this is one of the ONLY festivals that would actually take the time to ask our opinions (New Orleans Jazz Fest is another that is community-oriented).  And whether or not changes are made, just the fact that they are listening really solidifies our feelings towards the fest.

So yeah, let's hear MORE from us!  Whether you want to make changes or keep things the same, or see some other way of making our fest better, shout it out!  Even a small suggestion could make a big difference!

[Matt]

But let's face it:  this is one of the ONLY festivals that would actually take the time to ask our opinions (New Orleans Jazz Fest is another that is community-oriented).  And whether or not changes are made, just the fact that they are listening really solidifies our feelings towards the fest.

Hammer.  Nail.  Head.

 

[coloradobgrass]

It'd sure be nice to turn back the clock to yesteryear and have a 4am "start time" be orderly and reasonable, but unfortunately it seems the genie is out of the bottle at this stage of the game.  A very slippery slope has emerged whereby a large number of people are all competing to be in the front of the pack & have pushed the limits beyond reason.

While randomizing the first 100 numbers might be a step in the right direction, I don't know that it'd put a sufficient road block to the slippery slope & it still doesn't address the "institutional advantage" a large camp would still have over couples/smaller_groups who would still be subject to not getting any sleep every night vs. big camps where people take turns with duties.

I agree that empty chairs which violate the rules should be tossed aside ... but this is a good example of how festivarian spirit and basic human nature can be at odds.  IOW, most people won't make the direct confrontation and will prefer to go with the flow of "good vibes".  Who wants to ruffle anyone's feathers?  Yet at the same time, some people are willing to make more "passive" incremental gains by pushing the envelope of established rules under the cloak of the masses.

By contrast, on a powder day, if people started lining up their skis/boards in the lift line the night before, you better believe they'll be tossed aside come 6am or whenever the first person shows up!  Seems to me, the "no friends on a powder day" mantra at least cuts to the chase, yet we all get along and smile together.

Certainly not looking to pile more work on to PB, but I don't think it would be an enormous undertaking by any stretch ... although I'm sure there'd be a transitional period which whereby people would need to get used to & accept randomization of the tarp line.

 
 

Sure thing ,FOS, aka Mr. Mundane.

Easy there Billy, its going to be alright 

Keep pushing it, FOM. Come out and tell everyone how you really feel about the Telluride Bluegrass Festival.

STFU

Wow!! Billy why the anger towards FOM??? Just because he disagrees with you? I personally enjoy reading FOM's well thought out posts and have agreed with 95% of them. You're coming off in an negative light with the name calling.

One more thought on the tarp line...Thursday I entered the line around 7:30 and did not receive a number. I continued to wait in line until it started and proceed to walk in with the rest of the line only to find out that when I got to the front they had opened the gate after the last number and people were just walking in without waiting. So note to self and others...if you don't get a number do not continue to wait politely in line.

[BillyBeru]

To all,

Yes, I lost my cool - apologies to the kids out there for my foul language.

The reason for my animosity is that FOM has been going on and on about how to make TBF better while I have read his feelings about TBF on another music forum where he called TBF "mundane", among other things.

I frankly can't stand hypocrisy, as well as this attitude that he thinks he can fix the problems of TBF, given his prior opinions of what he really thinks of the festival (and the Planet).

So basically I told him to stick it because I knew the truth.

[Pirate Looks at --]

To all,

Yes, I lost my cool - apologies to the kids out there for my foul language.

The reason for my animosity is that FOM has been going on and on about how to make TBF better while I have read his feelings about TBF on another music forum where he called TBF "mundane", among other things.

I frankly can't stand hypocrisy, as well as this attitude that he thinks he can fix the problems of TBF, given his prior opinions of what he really thinks of the festival (and the Planet).

So basically I told him to stick it because I knew the truth.

Right on Billy. You said what needed to be said, and after all we are all "friends in the music". Quite frankly if FOM thinks that TBF is Mundane, I say great, I hope he will do something else on the next Summer Solstice, if he really feels that way, and leave a ticket for someone that really enjoys the event for the music and the community. So here's an Idea, lets leave the TownPark Line the way it is, and let the rest of the folk do what they want with their line. Because us Town Parkers are going to enjoy the Fest wherever we are. 

[FaceOnMars]

Perhaps I will look elsewhere next solstice Pirate, but as I mentioned TBF is my favorite festival (musically) close to home.  I'm not going to push any more on the tarp issue unless there's something substantially new to add.  Nonetheless, I still feel the way I do about it and whatever I've said elsewhere on other topics doesn't detract from the position re: tarps.  Another festivarian started this thread, some others agreed to various extents, and I tried to give it momentum ... since it is an issue which bothers me & would like to see the festival be as open and level to all as possible.

I did have an out of character meltdown earlier this year regarding another TBF topic on a different board - which in hindsight I'm not happy about having lost my cool either.  While I've been over the issue for quite some time, I guess things live on in virtual space.

So, I can see how Billy may have thought I was being like "Eddie Haskel" over here, but the truth of the matter is that I simply didn't want to be disrespectful inside another person's house nor rain on anyone else's parade by airing it all out here.   Maybe I should've dropped it entirely or been more direct with the powers that be (I ultimately did wind up "clearing the air" with Craig via pm).   I've tried to explain my "two-facedness" to Billy in pm exchanges, but apparently he felt my explanations weren't sincere ... which I can understand since I was quite peeved way back when on this other topic & my comments were reflective of that.  Regardless, I have no desire to be at odds with anyone on a personal level.

Moreover, I'd just assume not see what is already a contentious topic re: tarps take a turn for the worse on a negative and unrelated tangent which won't be productive for anyone and would be happy to simply drop it.   We might not all be best friends, but do share a love of music ... regardless of the context.

[sarajomo]

So here's an Idea, lets leave the TownPark Line the way it is, and let the rest of the folk do what they want with their line. Because us Town Parkers are going to enjoy the Fest wherever we are. 


Amen!

[BillyBeru]

Perhaps I will look elsewhere next solstice Pirate, but as I mentioned TBF is my favorite festival (musically) close to home.  I'm not going to push any more on the tarp issue unless there's something substantially new to add.  Nonetheless, I still feel the way I do about it and whatever I've said elsewhere on other topics doesn't detract from the position re: tarps.  Another festivarian started this thread, some others agreed to various extents, and I tried to give it momentum ... since it is an issue which bothers me & would like to see the festival be as open and level to all as possible.

I did have an out of character meltdown earlier this year regarding another TBF topic on a different board - which in hindsight I'm not happy about having lost my cool either.  While I've been over the issue for quite some time, I guess things live on in virtual space.

So, I can see how Billy may have thought I was being like "Eddie Haskel" over here, but the truth of the matter is that I simply didn't want to be disrespectful inside another person's house nor rain on anyone else's parade by airing it all out here.   Maybe I should've dropped it entirely or been more direct with the powers that be (I ultimately did wind up "clearing the air" with Craig via pm).   I've tried to explain my "two-facedness" to Billy in pm exchanges, but apparently he felt my explanations weren't sincere ... which I can understand since I was quite peeved way back when on this other topic & my comments were reflective of that.  Regardless, I have no desire to be at odds with anyone on a personal level.

Moreover, I'd just assume not see what is already a contentious topic re: tarps take a turn for the worse on a negative and unrelated tangent which won't be productive for anyone and would be happy to simply drop it.   We might not all be best friends, but do share a love of music ... regardless of the context.

Right on, FaceOnMars! Appreciate your honesty! Good stuff - thank you! 

Ok, let's start a new topic: Bands we want to see in 2014 at TBF

[headlight]

So here's an Idea, lets leave the TownPark Line the way it is, and let the rest of the folk do what they want with their line. Because us Town Parkers are going to enjoy the Fest wherever we are. 

I guess I would be one of the rest of the folk and quite frankly, I think that attitude is part of the problem and not much in the way of a constructive suggestion.

I as well will continue to enjoy the Festival, whenever we can make it over.

peace

 Listening to: Natalie McMaster

[headlight]

- Plans which make managing the line more work for the planet should be avoided.
- Some of us don't care about the front of the line or the front of the festival.   I get up at 4:00, get my 140-180 number, and score our desired shade spot for all the families in out camp.   Plans which "level the playing field" for the absurd front of the line shouldn't punish folks who are reasonable.

I guess I would ask why you would suggest that plans involving more work for PB should be avoided? I think I understand your rationale, but comes a time...

I really have to question the use of the term reasonable for getting in line at 4AM when other alternatives have been suggested and are being discussed. But I'm reasonably certain we can agree that what is reasonable for some, may not be considered such by others?

 Listening to: Still Natalie McMaster, wasn't her little girl something?

[FaceOnMars]

Right on, FaceOnMars! Appreciate your honesty! Good stuff - thank you! 

Ok, let's start a new topic: Bands we want to see in 2014 at TBF

Sorry to have side-stepped you're observations in the past Billy, and glad to be able to move forward on good terms! 

[luciouslil]

So here's an Idea, lets leave the TownPark Line the way it is, and let the rest of the folk do what they want with their line. Because us Town Parkers are going to enjoy the Fest wherever we are. 

I guess I would be one of the rest of the folk and quite frankly, I think that attitude is part of the problem and not much in the way of a constructive suggestion.

I as well will continue to enjoy the Festival, whenever we can make it over.

peace

Agree.  It is that US vs. THEM attitude of entitlement that shines quite an unflattering light on the "Town Parkers".  It's quite "unfestivarian".  Considering that the Town Park campers make up a fraction of attendees, and the fact that there is a separate line for entry, there will always be an advantage there.  I guess those that stay in TP do so regularly...  Lucky lottery winners I guess

[BillyBeru]

Hold on, folks. If you knew Pirate Larry you'd also know that he is a very humble person and is not being serious about Town Park entitlement. He's just acting like the silly pirate that he is- aargh!

Now lets all return to the merriment and jocularity we come to this for- FESTIVAAAAL!!!