My observations of the line procedure

[BillyBeru]

HA! Yep & thanks you to you too.
 (i know the Mayor didn't "tow them over on his runabout" but that's what the good politicians do: make some poor saps do it for him)

Couldn't agree with you more! 

If I had known you weren't capable I would have asked some of the younger guys.

The job bringing them out was accomplished, no? You had three dudes in their 20's and this 40+ old fart. There were no injuries suffered. I don't recall a beer purchased for the haulers now that I think about it. 

[FaceOnMars]

... I say keep the Tarp Line rules as they are.  If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Unfortunately many feel it is broke; personally still straddlin' that particular fence.

Mark expressed his opinion that he didn't feel it was broken. He's expressing his opinion. I agree with him.

Hopefully, the planet can fix some of the easy ones which I submitted in my survey response:
 - no selling of line #'s. They will need figure out to identify this but this is a big no no.
 - most likely, they will need to establish some time frame when people are allowed to line up the night before. I don't think that many people do it but apparently enough people are ticked off about it that a change may be needed.

Good luck trying to find a perfect system. I look forward to the Planet making the needed changes based on the festivarian survey and their own observations (and not this forum).

As you mentioned, people are simply expressing their opinions.   If anything, I'd say this forum is skewed toward "longtime festivarians" (many of which might be more inclined to embrace the status quo).   Nonetheless, I find it interesting how people have come out of the woodwork -- not just "crazy FOM" -- to express their reservations about how the tarp line/system is just plain out of hand.   The good news is that most people (myself included), preface their comments by saying how great the festival is in almost all other respects.

So it seems this is an excellent opportunity for PB to address what appears to be a limited and self-contained issue (i.e. tarp line & placement).  I would tend to think that most companies would kill to be in a position where customer satisfaction is already at least 90% AND what could be the only remaining determinant factor (tarp issues) to raise customer satisfaction significantly higher has already been identified.    What makes this even better for PB, is they already have an existing template for one possible solution (randomization @ Rockygrass) and the working knowledge of how it might play out to create a fair and level playing field - perhaps making the tarp issue essentially go away.

The more I've thought about it, and as much as I"m not a fan of people abusing big tarps, I think tarp size limits is a more nebulous policy to enforce (aside from overtly oversized tarps) vs. randomization of the tarp line.

As far as large groups/camps go re: randomization, they'd still maintain a clear statistical advantage by sheer numbers.  If a camp has 25+ people who all show up for a random number at 6-8am, there's a good likelihood that at least 1 or two will get a decent number.

[BillyBeru]

Given the heritage of the Tarp Run, I'm going to say with 99% confidence that your proposed randomization system for #s will NEVER be implemented.

[FaceOnMars]

Given the heritage of the Tarp Run, I'm going to say with 99% confidence that your proposed randomization system for #s will NEVER be implemented.

LOL @ "heritage" re: the tarp run as we now know it, when in reality it clearly manifested itself somewhere along the way.




her·it·age
[her-i-tij] Show IPA
noun
1.something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth; an inherited lot or portion: a heritage of poverty and suffering; a national heritage of honor, pride, and courage.
2.something reserved for one: the heritage of the righteous.
3.Law.
a.something that has been or may be inherited by legal descent or succession.
b.any property, especially land, that devolves by right of inheritance.

[BillyBeru]

Thanks, Webster.

[completejohn]

WOW - what a great photo!  Reminds me of my first trip to T-ride.

Can't we just make the tarp line alphabetical?

Sincerely,

Aaron Aardvark

[JoshAdFr21]

... I say keep the Tarp Line rules as they are.  If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Unfortunately many feel it is broke; personally still straddlin' that particular fence.

Mark expressed his opinion that he didn't feel it was broken. He's expressing his opinion. I agree with him.

Hopefully, the planet can fix some of the easy ones which I submitted in my survey response:
 - no selling of line #'s. They will need figure out to identify this but this is a big no no.
 - most likely, they will need to establish some time frame when people are allowed to line up the night before. I don't think that many people do it but apparently enough people are ticked off about it that a change may be needed.

Good luck trying to find a perfect system. I look forward to the Planet making the needed changes based on the festivarian survey and their own observations (and not this forum).

As you mentioned, people are simply expressing their opinions.   If anything, I'd say this forum is skewed toward "longtime festivarians" (many of which might be more inclined to embrace the status quo).   Nonetheless, I find it interesting how people have come out of the woodwork -- not just "crazy FOM" -- to express their reservations about how the tarp line/system is just plain out of hand.   The good news is that most people (myself included), preface their comments by saying how great the festival is in almost all other respects.

So it seems this is an excellent opportunity for PB to address what appears to be a limited and self-contained issue (i.e. tarp line & placement).  I would tend to think that most companies would kill to be in a position where customer satisfaction is already at least 90% AND what could be the only remaining determinant factor (tarp issues) to raise customer satisfaction significantly higher has already been identified.    What makes this even better for PB, is they already have an existing template for one possible solution (randomization @ Rockygrass) and the working knowledge of how it might play out to create a fair and level playing field - perhaps making the tarp issue essentially go away.

The more I've thought about it, and as much as I"m not a fan of people abusing big tarps, I think tarp size limits is a more nebulous policy to enforce (aside from overtly oversized tarps) vs. randomization of the tarp line.

As far as large groups/camps go re: randomization, they'd still maintain a clear statistical advantage by sheer numbers.  If a camp has 25+ people who all show up for a random number at 6-8am, there's a good likelihood that at least 1 or two will get a decent number.

What if it's a group not trying to get up front? Like I mentioned earlier, there are groups that just want to all be together. If I got the best number out of everyone in my group, i'd go in and start pushing away everyone next to me until my friends came in with their tarps.It would just create hostility where there doesn't need to be any.  What if the first 100 numbers were randomized and everything after that was given out in order?

I don't think there should be an issue with tarp sizes, if big groups can't bring in 1 big tarp, we'll just have 2 people bring in smaller tarps. The same amount of space is going to be taken up, but there will be more people in line.

[BillyBeru]

Don't worry, Josh. Trust the Planet to make the correct decisions.

[Hot Sugar]

I think the planet should take a page out of Montana's book for the tarp size limit: Reasonable and Prudent.

[kylers234]

How about PB just enforce the rules that are in place currently.  I don't think any of you sat in the back (stage left) like I did because of a 7:00 am tarp line arrival.  Everyone that arrived after that time had no space for their tarps, it was so crammed in the back there was no walkway between the chairs and the shade tents.  But the view to the stage was a virtual ghost town most of the day, GIANT unoccupied tarps.  Everyone has gotten so greedy for real estate and unconcerned about the entire festival family, it's kinda disheartening and sad. 

 

[headlight]

Oh, that's right. Run-a-muck was full of gimps this year.

Tom, methinks you have just christened a new camp!

If we hit TP Lottery this year, would be proud to drop our Moss in Camp full of gimps! ;-)

 Listening to: More 90's Dead - Last Deer Creek Shoe

[headlight]

WOW - what a great photo!  Reminds me of my first trip to T-ride.

Can't we just make the tarp line alphabetical?

Sincerely,

Aaron Aardvark

As long as we make it reverse alphabetical; I would be OK with that!

Respectfully

Zeke Zoroaster

 Listening to: Waifs Live - Glad the Mrs. spotted this one in the Merch tent

[ShatteredArm]

I don't think there should be an issue with tarp sizes, if big groups can't bring in 1 big tarp, we'll just have 2 people bring in smaller tarps. The same amount of space is going to be taken up, but there will be more people in line.

That's exactly the point of enforcing the tarp size rule.  You can still have your space, but you just have to have as much skin in the game as everybody else.  What's unfair is that if you are in a very large group, you may never have to wake up early to get a good spot, whereas if there are just two of you, you have to get up early every other day.  If you force one person to wait in line for every unit of tarp space, larger camps will have to really think twice about how much space they really need.

So what if the line gets a little longer?

[Hot Sugar]

IF there are only two of you, why not use some of that vast, unused real estate? Tarp hopping is a time honored tradition; one I have enjoyed many times over the years and plan to enjoy for many more years.

 Listening to: Infamous Stringdusters

[FaceOnMars]

Thanks, Webster.

I suppose this issue does kind of make me feel like I'm one of the nerds going up against the "cool fraternities" in Revenge of the Nerds!