Hiking Bear Creek

[Iriecycle]

The other image I presently have, of Wasatch from Bluegrass 2010 weekend, is to large to post here.  Though I'd like to post images, cause they're nice, perhaps there is a better way for LawyerKen to get them?  There will be more sent to my e.mail this weekend or early next week.
 

 Listening to: George Harrison - Here Comes the Sun

[ShatteredArm]

Colorado is a beautiful place and I want a chunk all my own, so I can take off my shirt and talk to the birds if I wish. Now what good is PRIVATE property if we cannot take full advantage.

This property I looked at that had been encrouched upon, georgeous! But with all the folks running, hiking and horseback riding I thought. Why should I pay taxes on this land, its a rec center, let them pay for it. I want privacy, if you cannot get it on your own land than where?

Pretty soon the lines will be so grey no one will buy land.

You can take full advantage of your private property, within the law.  But you cannot prevent others from enjoying what isn't your property by blocking off their access to that land.  That's why prescriptive easements exist.  If there is public land that has historically been accessed through your property, you can't block it off.  You can block off part of your land, but you have to provide a path for the public to get through.

There's nothing wrong with that.  If you want your land completely to yourself, don't buy land that has an easement.  There's not really any grey area here.  The slope is not as slippery as you're suggesting.

[ShatteredArm]

But the way the law is written, it is an opened ended invitation to create one. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Not really.  If you are the owner of the land, you simply have to block off access before enough time has elapsed to gain the easement.  It takes a long period of hostile use for the easement to be created (I think in Colorado it is a whole 18 years).  You really need quite a bit of neglect on the part of the owner for this to happen.

[FaceOnMars]

Private property is private period.

Let me guess landshark, you're "pro tarp"   

Just think, one big tarp, zones painted on it, the dance zone, the shade tent zone. Could be fun, twister?

Zones, clear lines. I think its a great idea. and no muss, no fuss. Enviro friendly and reuseable.

Sorry I didn't mean to sabatoge this thread.... never mind, as she slinks away.....

It's actually not a half bad idea!

... although I can still see people bringing out individual tarps to place on the big communal tarp.

[landshark]

Private property is private period.

Let me guess landshark, you're "pro tarp"   

Just think, one big tarp, zones painted on it, the dance zone, the shade tent zone. Could be fun, twister?

Zones, clear lines. I think its a great idea. and no muss, no fuss. Enviro friendly and reuseable.

Sorry I didn't mean to sabatoge this thread.... never mind, as she slinks away.....

It's actually not a half bad idea!

... although I can still see people bringing out individual tarps to place on the big communal tarp.

I want to paint the kids zone!

[FaceOnMars]

Discussion of Private Property Rights, I'm sure fits in with discussion of Politics and Religion.  Nearer to heart to many than either Politics or Religion.  Lets start with your body.  First it was your Mum's, then your parents to care for, then it was yours.  Is that body in the womb the possession of the Mother?  If so, what percentage is the Father's?  "If you don't like what the Big Chief say, you say, 'Jackamo Fee Nah Neh.'"  Look it up.  Good Luck.  You'd have an easier time looking up CONCUPISCENCE, and that would require at least a pre-1850's definition.  Even then you might find some repressive pre-1850's definition.  As far as the "Aiko, Aiko," part, ya'll got that or you would not be on this forum.  And while I'm on my soapbox; why does the Devil need an advocate?  Last time I checked (now) he does not need another advocate.  Imagine communication without adversity.  Is it possible?  Peace on Earth.  Truth, Non-violence, even in thought.  Self-regulating people, self- aware to check every thought.  Certainly difficult when the palette of the mind is mine and mine alone, though possible as many seekers, Profits, and Saints have shown.  Ever notice in the Sistine chapel's Michelangelo how GOD (in his bearded, and anthropomorphic, splendor) is pointing at man (ADAM) and Adam is limply reaching to GOD with the support of his own knee.  I and I might try reaching like it was the most important reaching in our lives, all the time.  Rather than have a tracery experience with the Spirit, why not Primary and let our fear, mock-control, and pride fade away.  Shirtless anywhere, privacy to be found in our wilderness, naked before Him, always.  "Him," with lacking femininity?  Impossible.  "It," not such gracious reference.  Love ya, for real.

Can't remember if it was Billy or Mickey, but one of them was being interviewed when I learned that Jackamo Fee Nah Neh = kiss my rear.

From outer space, this big blue ball which is spinning spinning free is just ONE "unit" ... all the while there are countless sets of (two good) eyes embedded in this unit which are wired/programmed to discern boundaries, yet very few can see the interconnectedness of everything ... which is fine, it's just that it's difficult to have the two paradigms coexist as evidenced by much of U.S. History and how those who didn't buy into the whole private property paradigm were "relocated".

[Iriecycle]

From FaceOnMars: It's actually not a half bad idea!

... although I can still see people bringing out individual tarps to place on the big communal tarp.

(Can't get this partial quote thing)

. . . and there could be a picnic basket and blanket space on the big oneness

 Listening to: 7-31-74 fresh on Archive

[Iriecycle]

Jackamo = Big Party

Feenahnee = I don't work for the man no more



 Listening to: Stella Blue

[ShatteredArm]

OK just one more thought on this. I live full time on a mountain top. Most of my neighbors are here only briefly in the Summer. We are surrounded by 3 different State and National parks. Trails abound. I leave the house and hit the trail in less then 2 minutes. I have hiked this hike for 20 years and yep I bet if I checked I could place an easment on several properties that are near a trail. But would I ever even consider treating my neighbors land as mine , heck no. I would never take something that is not mine in the first place. Open ended invitation, many folks sre greedy and look for that small crack of oppertunity to gain.

How would you (or somebody else) gain from such an easement?  Assuming you can place an easement on someone else's property, it doesn't mean it's yours.  It just means you are legally allowed to continue to use it the way you have been using it.  You can't sell your easement on the market.  You can't start farming or mining it.  All you can do is keep doing what you've done for over 18 years.  Getting a prescriptive easement is, almost by definition, not profiteering.

[FestiTrey]

Wow, I just read about this debacle in the January edition of Outside...or at least I assume I did if this is all related to the crap that Tom Chapman is trying to do with Bear Creek and See Forever run.  Towards the end of the article, it made it seem like this was more of a threat than a reality because he probably didn't have the financial backing to do what he was threatening anyway.  At least I hope not!  The guy seems like a total prick so when I'm in Telluride this weekend, I will be looking for my own TOM CHAPMAN IS A DOUCHE BAG sticker. 

Sorry, I don't have any photos of Bear Creek to share, but for those interested in the article, you can find it online here: 

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/natural-intelligence/Backcountry-Monopoly.html?page=all



 Listening to: RRE - 12/30/2011 at the Ogden Theater

[kerrybolger]

I have several photos to share.  I have hiked that trail 20-50 times per year for the past ten years or more.  Love it!

[lawyerKen]

Kerry: 

I sent you an e-mail but it may have been filtered to junk. 

Ken.