sleeping in line and oversized tarps

[AnythingAtAll]

OK, so enforcement may not be so easy, an excellent case has been made for that.

But back to Helixer's point though- as a community, should there be some tarp size beyond which the community says, "whoa, that's just freakin' too big" or do the physical laws relating to tarpology naturally limit what can be done?

Helixer and FOM- would limiting size really accomplish anything?  Most large tarps usually have at least two people, one to run the tarp, one (or more even) to help spread it out.  Each person has a number and a spot in line.  If tarp size were limited to say 8X10', wouldn't you just have 2 (or more) people in line with 8X10's instead of one person with a 16X10' and a helper?  I'm honestly not sure it would make much difference.

Just asking...I got no dog in the fight- I actually favor a lottery on the camps side (town side- I have no idea), but that's because I don't care enough to lose time, sleep, etc. and spend so much time in line for a spot on the field.  Time (and sleep) at TBF are too precious to me.  That said, I can see the point of view that keeps the current system in place.   

[landshark]

OK, lets get funky with it. Put some fun in this, we all can make a huge change in tarpology. Nothins fair in life, don't expect it to be.
Sometimes the solution is none at all. Things have a way of filtering out. People in the front are now in the back or to the side, with a tarp or no tarp at all

Ambassador to the good vibe shall be me, floating from empty tarp, to empty tarp, to set am example, to show it is safe and fun. I might have to lose the TERMINATOR SQUIRT GUN however. bummer.

No show down at the hoe down

[ponchom1]

"Don't worry, be happy..."

[BillyBeru]

Don't mess with the Tarp Run! It's a tradition unlike any other.

 Listening to: bagpipes in my head as I prepare for the Tarp Run.

[captain pete]

I don't chime in much on here... but I think the idea of empty tarps is greatly overblown to begin with.  Yeah, there's a few here and there, but I just don't see this being the issue it's being made into.  Besides that, the whole entire festival population is really just a movin/groovin mass of humanity for most of the day anyway.


And to the point of inviting folks to join you and/or tarp squatting... we have at least two members of our group who were specifically met in this way.  And now they come back every year, camp with us, cook with us, get invited to our weddings, etc.  A lot of people talk on this forum on a regular basis about how much they appreciate PB challenging their musical comfort zones.  I'd say this is just one more opportunity to get out of your comfort zone and learn a little bit about all these great people and maybe even yourself.

[FaceOnMars]

- spray paint zones
- post signs at entrance about rule adjustment
- have PB volunteer go up and down the tarp line explaining about new rules & zero tolerance
- have a few PB volunteers stationed in the field to act as monitors/refs
- even have a que for festivarians (taking their chances) to wait to be signaled by refs to move in on over-claimed space.
- if there are any arguments with PB volunteers:  one warning, then immediate cutting of wristband (policy to be noticed well in advance)

So, in effect, you are creating a pseudo police zone/state, complete with new lines and such. I'm sorry, man, but I completely disagree with this idea.

The beauty of Telluride is that historically similarly minded people have attended this festival and police themselves with our own set of unwritten rules or written ones (allow people to share your empty portions of your tarp). Yes, a few bad apples and bad behaviors exist but hopefully they will be self-corrected as the offenders see how other festivarians act and get a sense for how the true festivarian spirit works.

Your system will help tarnish the current festivarian system of sharing and giving by instituting a "this is my tarp" system created by having officials say who's next, etc. You really want people watching you because of tarp size? You really want Orwell over your shoulder? People come to Telluride to be free of the restrictions of other festivals, and to date, the current system has worked. Don't mess with it!

BB:  you asked (how it would be enforced), so I simply gave a top of my head response on one possible way it could be enforced.    I'm simply in favor of limiting tarp sizes in general and thought helixer's idea had some merrit ... not necessarily the possible police state which it might entail ... although not quite sure this would come to be.  I've yet to see anyone walking around with a basketball testing out people's chair heights.

I agree with you about preserving the festivarian spirit over authoritarian rule, but lets' face it ... there's a myriad of friendly yet often very intense competitions among festivarians for primo space.   I think it's somewhat of an "euphoric recall" (only remembering the positive elements and discounting the negative) to believe that boundaries aren't being pushed & real estate isn't being claimed and watched over.

Ok, then just limit tarp sizes (either across the board or just up front) & "self police" on such rules ... maybe that would've been a better reply to your original question.   As I tried to preface my remarks, I do believe the rules work reasonably well ... it's just that we've all observed how the festival is now literally bursting at the seams.  And I've simultaneously noted huge swaths of open tarp space in primo locations near the SB which would literally not exist at a tarpless GA show.

I guess I do share with you and many others an idealism of sorts about promoting a festivarian spirit ... but I'm also a realist and know that not everyone will embrace such notions.   So, basically just saying that we do need rules & maybe a slight adjustment might help calibrate space issues a bit.

[BillyBeru]

BB:  you asked (how it would be enforced), so I simply gave a top of my head response on one possible way it could be enforced.    I'm simply in favor of limiting tarp sizes in general and thought helixer's idea had some merrit ... not necessarily the possible police state which it might entail ... although not quite sure this would come to be.  I've yet to see anyone walking around with a basketball testing out people's chair heights.

I agree with you about preserving the festivarian spirit over authoritarian rule, but lets' face it ... there's a myriad of friendly yet often very intense competitions among festivarians for primo space.   I think it's somewhat of an "euphoric recall" (only remembering the positive elements and discounting the negative) to believe that boundaries aren't being pushed & real estate isn't being claimed and watched over.

FOM, it's hard getting a read on what you're saying man because one minute you are saying "cut off people's wristbands" (which prompted my police state comment) and then the other the "festivarian" spirit.

Nothing is going to be perfect but I think the current system is the best one we have. Let it be, let it be.

[FaceOnMars]

BB:  you asked (how it would be enforced), so I simply gave a top of my head response on one possible way it could be enforced.    I'm simply in favor of limiting tarp sizes in general and thought helixer's idea had some merrit ... not necessarily the possible police state which it might entail ... although not quite sure this would come to be.  I've yet to see anyone walking around with a basketball testing out people's chair heights.

I agree with you about preserving the festivarian spirit over authoritarian rule, but lets' face it ... there's a myriad of friendly yet often very intense competitions among festivarians for primo space.   I think it's somewhat of an "euphoric recall" (only remembering the positive elements and discounting the negative) to believe that boundaries aren't being pushed & real estate isn't being claimed and watched over.

FOM, it's hard getting a read on what you're saying man because one minute you are saying "cut off people's wristbands" (which prompted my police state comment) and then the other the "festivarian" spirit.

Nothing is going to be perfect but I think the current system is the best one we have. Let it be, let it be.

BB:  I admit my original comment wasn't exactly well thought out as to the particulars of how such a measure could be "enforced" and what it would entail ... it was just an attempt to address the details & eventualities.   Sorry, didn't mean to invoke images of tarp nazis with measuring tapes.   I guess the whole cutting of wristbands was due to knowing just how entrenched tradition has become & there would probably be a few loose canons who would say "screw it I'm gonna do what I've done for the past 30 years".   I personally wouldn't want to ever have to cut anyone else's wristband over such an "infraction" ... I was just compelled to answer your question regarding enforcement in full .... maybe it's just compulsive behavior on my part to address all loose ends.

I'm hardly looking to spearhead a movement, but if the topic is raised (although I'm not necessarily a fan of the possible motivation of this thread's) ... I'll still feel the way I do re:  making some adjustments.

[HuckinFappy]

I'm hardly looking to spearhead a movement

Can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singing a bar of "Telluride Tarps" and walking out.  And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is, the Telluride TarpFest Anti-Enforcement Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.

With feeling.  So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and sing it when it does.  Here it comes.

You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride's Bluegrass Fest
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride's Bluegrass Fest
Sit right down in some empty space
Meet new friends with a smile on your face
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride's Bluegrass Fest

That was horrible.  If you want to festivate and stuff you got to sing loud. I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes.  I'm not proud... or tired.

So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part harmony and feeling.

We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing.

[landshark]

I'm hardly looking to spearhead a movement

Can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singing a bar of "Telluride Tarps" and walking out.  And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is, the Telluride TarpFest Anti-Enforcement Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.

With feeling.  So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and sing it when it does.  Here it comes.

You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride's Bluegrass Fest
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride's Bluegrass Fest
Sit right down in some empty space
Meet new friends with a smile on your face
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride's Bluegrass Fest

That was horrible.  If you want to festivate and stuff you got to sing loud. I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes.  I'm not proud... or tired.

So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part harmony and feeling.

We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing.

HAHaaa Next year I'm pushin for a lazyboy, shag rug, walker combo. Screw the tarp thing. Lets think big!

[wbcohen]

Hard for non Festivarians to understand (as much as I try to explain it to them) but for 4 days in June there is no better place to be on earth at 4AM than in the tarp line in Telluride Colorado and no better people to be found than the new ones you meet sharing open tarp space.

 Listening to: 5 strings

[FaceOnMars]

[Iriecycle]

I think that about sums up this thread.  Did PB distill other?

 Listening to: Blow Away - Grateful Dead

[landshark]

  Did PB distill other?

LKen requested of me to remove my posts. All but the first one. As requested.

Tarp talk, 20 years after I am dead this thread will still be goin 

[helixer]

You all are making a ton of assumptions. Just because someone writes that enforcement would create a 'pseudo police zone' or whatever doesn't make it so. As Faceonmars succinctly states, you spray/mark out a section for limited sized tarps. You create a few simple signs , such as the sandwich signs that already exist that say 'no high backed chairs, no standing etc.' The first year there may need to be an emcee announcement or two from the stage, and perhaps a few volunteers may have to walk up to a few Fetivarians who can't read and nicely and calmly point out the new rule. The new rule, which by the way allows everyone to share in the experience. Not a big deal. Not a police state.
Planet Bluegrass, are you reading this? When the new rule is 'announceed' from stage or in the Festival program, there will be LOUD cheers from MOST of the audience.

 Listening to: Stringdusters