Sorry to beat this dead TARP!!!

[landshark]

I say we have some fun with this and make a huge twister game with groups of 10 on each space 

 Fun city Batman

[kylers234]

After taking sometime to reflect on this.  Here is my suggestion.  I do think tarp size should be limited.  We had some women in front of us that were there for two sets and had an immense tarp with 4 chairs on it that sat empty most of the day. 

Also, it is inevitable that the people upfront will be invaded by festivarians during the two last sets of the evening.  It would be great if the chairs and coolers could be removed to the  eastside dancing area before the final 2 acts, so there is more room to stand and dance.  It couldn't be much fun sitting on your chair eating and drinking with gyrating kids all around you tripping over all the chairs and coolers etc.

 Listening to: Bela Fleck

[landshark]

  We had some women in front of us that were there for two sets and had an immense tarp with 4 chairs on it that sat empty most of the day. 

Sounds like the perfect tarp mate to me. Move up, stretch out and enjoy the show!!!

[psayhey]

i don't like standing in lines and i'm not crazy about making 1000 new friends in a weekend. call me nuts, but i'm just a huge fan of the music and really enjoy the beauty of telluride. this year is the first year i missed since i started going.
instead of telluride, we decided to check out northwest string summit, tarp population 0. people brought blankets and chairs for up top, but in front of the stage were dancers and hula hoopers. there were no people lined up early in the morning for some competitive land rush, there were no vacant tarps for the majority of the day. you didn't have to ask some stranger if it was cool if you hung out right here, even though you really don't like to impose. there wasn't even discussion about it. if you wanted to sit down, you made your way to the back of the room and made yourself comfortable. i strongly believe that the front of the stage area is where those with festive spirit and happy dancing feet belong.
tarps raise the temperature of the fielf by 20 degrees, too!
my suggestion for telluride: get rid of the whole tarp issue. allow chairs and blankets, but limit them to the outer perimeter (no chairs in front). i liked the idea of bleachers for those who would use them. removing tarps increases the floor by 30%, even in the most peak times.
those who think that getting to festival so you can work to get a spot can start a bowling league or something to feed their competitive monkey during festival, but let those who want to take it easy and enjoy the fest do so in peace. i'll make plenty of friends, on my terms and in my comfort zone.
'because thats the way we do it' is asinine. some changes need to be made, stat!




 Listening to: Danny Barnes, Larry Keel and Drew Emmitt at NWSS '11

[FaceOnMars]

i don't like standing in lines and i'm not crazy about making 1000 new friends in a weekend. call me nuts, but i'm just a huge fan of the music and really enjoy the beauty of telluride. this year is the first year i missed since i started going.
instead of telluride, we decided to check out northwest string summit, tarp population 0. people brought blankets and chairs for up top, but in front of the stage were dancers and hula hoopers. there were no people lined up early in the morning for some competitive land rush, there were no vacant tarps for the majority of the day. you didn't have to ask some stranger if it was cool if you hung out right here, even though you really don't like to impose. there wasn't even discussion about it. if you wanted to sit down, you made your way to the back of the room and made yourself comfortable. i strongly believe that the front of the stage area is where those with festive spirit and happy dancing feet belong.
tarps raise the temperature of the fielf by 20 degrees, too!
my suggestion for telluride: get rid of the whole tarp issue. allow chairs and blankets, but limit them to the outer perimeter (no chairs in front). i liked the idea of bleachers for those who would use them. removing tarps increases the floor by 30%, even in the most peak times.
those who think that getting to festival so you can work to get a spot can start a bowling league or something to feed their competitive monkey during festival, but let those who want to take it easy and enjoy the fest do so in peace. i'll make plenty of friends, on my terms and in my comfort zone.
'because thats the way we do it' is asinine. some changes need to be made, stat!

Hey psayhey, thanks for sharing your perspective ... which is actually one I share at the root of the matter.  I typically just go along with the program as not to rain on anyone's parade; however, I do believe that while TBF is probably one the most efficient & well-oiled machines, it is simultaneously one of the worst culprits in so far as allowing a "stacking of the deck" for those who are willing to compete physically & then enforce their "gains" on the social front.    I probably see upwards of 80 shows (of one form or another) a year & can say without hesitation the TBF's quasi GA establishment irks me more than most any other setup I encounter.

I don't know, maybe I'm too black and white on things like this .... but I definitely know others, some of whom are much more vocal about the issue and have allowed it to fester and take a life of it's own, whereas I figure it's like fighting city hall ... so what's the point of getting worked up if this is the way it's going to be.

The way I look at it is that you can pretty much treat the entire festival as a "regular GA" setup and you should be OK if you're respectful of others.    In other words, it should all work out ... if someone has an issue with you being where you're at (and you haven't displaced anyone), then it's THEIR issue, not yours.   It might be difficult trying to keep your perspective with the grumblings of those few who insist on possessing empty "buffer space", but I think the majority of people will let things slide - if you're respectful.

Still, I'd be all for the abolishment of tarps as we currently know it ... and to those who would retort tradition tradition tradition ... my suspicion is that the first few or ten years didn't see any of this sort of competitive craziness with calls for "festivarian spirit to smooth over the rough edges".

[bdouglaswood]

this is a really great discussion, seriously.  one that proves that TBF does draw a great community of friends.  I find myself agreeing with many varying perspectives here, even when they contradict somewhat.

i'll say this: I HATE tarps anywhere except TBF.  I don't know if TBF customs are responsible for the trend having taken hold at red rocks, but i really think it should be banned there--i.e. not a limitation on tarp size--just plain NO TARPS.  you've got a numbered (even at GA shows) bench seat made of wood and concrete.  if it's too hard for your touchie, a blanket is fine, but there is no reason for space saving for a show that will completely begin and end 6 hours after the doors open.

but TBF (and most festivals) are different--in theory and practice.  I have always labored under the belief that I am allowed to sit in any open space at TBF whether a tarp covers it or not, and because i often travel in a group of 2 or 3, that makes more sense than me and my 1 or 2 partners taking up a specific tarp sized space (we do lay a small tarp sometimes), and i agree with the guy above who said that i may not want to make 1000 friends at a fest, so i am not going to join a tarping team and am not going to create artificial small talk with the people who own the tarp i'm sitting on, much of the time.  I think so long as tarps remain, that has to be the rule.  if folks are simply disalowed from others' tarped space, there actually wouldn't be enought space to fit us all.  long story short, i think it works at TBF, both because it is a fest where people need some sitting space and will come and go, and because people are very courteous at this fest and don't require me or others to explain our presence on their empty tarps. 

i do get the concern for certain strong arming that goes on, and nothing is (or is gonna be) perfect, but i think as long as there are multiple announcements (and it seems there used to be--maybe it was a colonel mustard thing) that, ever so politely, you dont' really have the option of kicking a person off an unused piece of dirt just cuz part of your tarp covers it.  others have mentioned times they needed to prompt people to move along, but this seems just more of a general rudeness issue.  if someone is blowing smoke in your face or yelling during a set, i think you do have the right to ask that person to move along--but never because s/he's occupying empty tarp space.

i also like the idea of more untarpable dance space at the very front.  those of you concerned about dust space A. underestimate how much dust is already kicked up from the sides and B. have the option of not putting you tarp at the front if you think it will become too dusty up there.  i do recognize that this might be a "no fighting city hall" point though.

anyway, my two cents.